Designing High Performing Teams with Edwin Choi (56)
Chris: [00:00:00] In this episode of Great Practices, I'm joined by Edwin Choi, founder of Jet Fuel Agency, A marketing and growth company for seven to nine-figure brands.
Listen in as Edwin talks about the four pillars that make Jet Fuel's culture so unique, how he zigged when others zagged, and how that worked out for him, as well as his system of onboarding and training. Plus, you'll find out his perspective on giving feedback,
as well as the absolutely absurd question that he asks his employees
[00:01:00] We'd like to welcome you to this episode of Great Practices, and today we are talking about teams. Now, there's no shortage of cliches when it comes to teams. There's no I in team. Teamwork makes the dream work. Together everyone achieves more. The list goes on and on. These all sound great in theory, and they make for clever posters that hang on office walls.
But exactly how do you create high performing teams? Well, that's what Edwin Choi, our guest today, is going to be talking with us about. Edwin is the founder of Jetfuel Agency and is no stranger to designing, not just hiring, high performing teams. His company has grown to 31 people that are subject matter experts who obsess over ROI, overcome growth [00:02:00] obstacles, make sense of chaos, and architect strong next steps to bring clarity to that chaos.
So we're going to be talking with Edwin about some of his unconventional views of designing teams and how you can apply them in your organization. Edwin, welcome to Great Practices.
Edwin: Awesome, Chris. Thank you for having me on. Glad to be here.
Chris: Yeah, we are absolutely looking forward to our conversation today, and, uh, let's just kick it off. Tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do.
Edwin: Yeah, absolutely. So name's Edwin. I've been involved in direct response digital marketing since two thousand and
nine. So
it's kinda crazy to say that out loud. I feel like a little bit of a dinosaur in the space, but coming out of college, I went straight into a digital marketing agency for two and a half years, started learning the basics of SEO and PPC, uh, which is Google Ads, um, then went in-house to an e-commerce brand where I helped scale the company five million a year to thirty million a year in revenue.
We went from twenty [00:03:00] to a hundred and ten people at its peak before I left, so, so really wild ride. Um, and then in twenty seventeen, I launched
Jet Fuel Agency, right? So Jet Fuel Agency was really an experiment. I wanted to see if I can distill my DNA into a group and team of people and see how that goes.
And, you know, we've been very fortunate to be working with some amazing brands and, uh, we've been doing that ever since. And it's-- I've learned a lot about leadership and team building and, and made a ton of mistakes during my time leading this company
Chris: sounds like, uh, it sounds like you've just had plenty of time, extra time on your hands is what it sounds like over the years,
right? You've
Edwin: I, I wish that was
true. I wish that was true.
Chris: My goodness. Hey, what, what period of time, what period of time did you grow from 20 to 110 people? Like, how many years was that?
Edwin: That was during four years.
Chris: In four year. Okay. Man, that is a lot of moving parts. That's a lot of, lot of activity going on there.
Edwin: Absolutely.[00:04:00]
Chris: Okay, so you started Jet Fuel Agency in 2017, and, and that has also been very successful over these past, uh, number of years now. What, what do you see as being critical, uh, to the growth of your company?
Edwin: Well, I think the best thing that I always repeat ad nauseam, I basically repeat it so much people are probably sick of it, um, but your work is the best salesperson we have. The work should sell itself.
Chris: Hmm.
Edwin: I think it's really critical that every touch point that we have with each other, every touch point that we have of our work, and every touch point that we have with our clients and partners, that we are essentially going above and beyond in terms of the value that we're creating, right?
I think that has been the very unsexy answer as to why we've been growing, because good work sells itself, right? When
people ask each other for, "Hey, do you know of a good marketing agency? I'm looking to make a switch," we want our name to be top of mind,
right? No hesitation in, in the recommendation.
Chris: You know, you, you said that earlier. You said that, you know, people are [00:05:00] so sick of hearing you say that, right? That your work should speak for itself, and that's what's really selling everything. Here's the deal with that. It's like by the time that you think that you are so sick and tired of hearing that same thing over and over again, that's when people are like, "Oh, I think I remember him saying something about that," you know?
We, we get, we just get so overwhelmed by saying it ourselves, but that is what it takes, you know, to get that message out there that you've been able to do there, so that's really good.
Edwin: Absolutely. I want the goal that behind closed doors people can make fun of me by pretending to be me and just saying all the things that I say, right? And if they could do that with some level of accuracy, then I have said those things enough.
Chris: That's fantastic. So all the cliches, all the one-liners that you have, right? You just wanna, yeah, have a, have a caricature of you somewhere. That's great.
Edwin: Oh, absolutely.
Chris: How, how would you describe, then, Jet Fuel's culture? So you've got, you know, you've kinda laid these, these pieces out here, but how would you, how would you net that out as far as what the culture is there?
Edwin: Yeah. Yeah, so we [00:06:00] have a few pillars that we really stand behind, right? And I think the first thing that we define with everyone when they're onboarded is, "How would you describe our culture?" Right? And I think a lot of people when they're onboarded, we have to reset the expectations of what that means.
Because a lot of people, when they think of the word culture, they think of benefits, they think of perks, they think of happy hour, they think of games, right?
And those can be good pieces of a functional culture, but more so those are just- Uh, almost like perks, right, that, that comes with working here. What I want to reframe the conversation with them as soon as day one comes is culture is what happens when you and I need a difficult conversation.
How is that generally gonna go? How do we work and communicate with each other every day? How do we celebrate the wins together? How do we respond to times of adversity? That's the culture, right? And then I think the common analogy I have is a culture is like a rope, right? [00:07:00] And running a business and just being in a company is like holding onto a rope on a ship while you're sailing, right? So if a hurricane was to come, if you have a strong culture, your rope is very strong, and everyone can hold on,
But if you have a weak culture, then your rope would just kind of break apart and everyone would fly every which way, right? So that's, to me, what culture is.
Chris: You know, that, that is very insightful because, I mean, what I'm hearing you say is, you know, when the times are good, it's easy to get along with everyone. It's easy to get the work done, you know?
But if-- But what you're, what you're focusing in on is the tough conversations. What do you do when the time is bad?
What do you do when that hurricane comes? are you able to, continue on with the company and be able to still get work done? So that's, that's really a, a very unique way of looking at that.
Edwin: Yeah, yeah, so I would say that's, that's the first thing is just framing mentally what
culture means to everyone. Then we can talk about the actual pillars, right? One is [00:08:00] self-growth. We will lead the horse to the water, but we'll never be able to make the horse drink, right? So I want to make it clear that there will be a lot of support for your growth, but our baseline expectation is that you spend time on your own to grow yourself. Like we, management, whomever, we're not going to spoon-feed you growth.
Like, that's just not gonna happen here. Um, that's not gonna happen in a remote environment, and that's certainly not gonna happen here, um, because we just move too quickly, uh, to, to do things like that. I think that's the most important thing, that everyone here is- wants to be 1% better today than they were yesterday,
and that effort compounds, and that effort is contagious. Second is how we communicate with each other. We want respectable candor, right? So that means we want people to feel very safe with saying things like, "Huh, I don't [00:09:00] think that was your best work
that you're able to do," right? "I, I think it's lacking in areas X and Y, and, and here's why," right? And we want it to not just come from top down, but bottom up and side to side, right? So if people are very comfortable saying things like, "Hey, I don't think this presentation's at the quality that w- we're used to," let's get on a huddle and, and really upgrade it. You want that to be a very acceptable... You know, obviously it's done respectfully, um, but you want that to be a very safe conversation to have with whomever. And you want people, and I, I say this all the time, never let the hippo dominate a room, right? highest important person's opinion,
right? That means that if I say something, I do not expect it to be fact, and I don't expect it to be done. I expect you to challenge me on
it, right? Uh, so if you kind of lead by example there, then everyone else will start doing things like that, right? Like, you want to be [00:10:00] comfortably skeptical of everything that's being presented. Um, and then, uh, the last part is, hey, like let's, let's just make sure we're having some fun, right? Like, we're spending more time with each other than sometimes with our family members, right?
Like, work is a big part of our day-to-day. It's a big part of the 24 hours that we have a day. Um, so we wanna make it so it's exciting to learn new things, exciting to run experiments, um, that we're, that we spend some time talking about personal things and joking and messing around, right? Like, we do- it doesn't need to be so serious all the time, you know?
So yeah, hopefully that gives you,
Chris: No, that's, that's great. Okay, let me, let me get my head around these pillars. So I think I'm-- I heard you say four pillars, right? So, um, so there's the self-growth, right? You're gonna enable it, you're gonna allow it, but it's gonna ultimately be up to that person to continue to make themselves better, right?
The second piece was communicating with respectable candor, and I liked what you said there because you said, "Hey, you know, this isn't your best [00:11:00] work." You know? So, like, you're basically saying, "We know you're capable. We've seen you do great work, you know, and we've seen you do better work." And it's like you're giving them the benefit of the doubt there, and that is just, it, it's feeling like a safe place to do that, so that's great.
Um, highest, uh, highest paid person in the room, basically, like their opinion is not going to be the one that just, you know, overtakes everybody else. And then finally, wrap it all up with some having f- with some h- with having some fun.
Edwin: Yeah,
absolutely. I
think you nailed it.
Chris: That's great, man. Now, y- you know, you, you've got this team of 31 people, pretty sizable.
That's a lot of people, you know, ultimately you're responsible for, and that's a lot of mouths to feed and all of that kind of stuff, right? You, however, seem pretty chill from the conversations that we've had. What, what do you attribute that to? Like, how are you not like just like, oh, you know, stressed out over, you know, all of these things going on at any moment in time?
Edwin: Yeah, absolutely. I think one thing I want to make clear is that this has been a work in progress,[00:12:00]
right? So certainly when I was starting off as a manager, I was a very young manager. I think I was a, uh, a manager at 26, and then I was a, a VP at 28.
So I had a very accelerated path, so- I was that stressed out person,
right? Managing mouths and making sure that everyone's getting along.
But I think, uh, something that's really good is just a mindset shift, right? So I could wake up every day and go, "Oh, holy moly, I have to manage all these people. So and so doesn't like working with so and so. There's a fire I gotta put out." So those are... Those could be things I focus on. And, and let's face it, those things are guaranteed.
Like, they're guaranteed to happen.
Like, I have never had a year of business where I didn't just get punched in the face repeatedly throughout that year, right? So, okay, so if you know it's a known fact that that's gonna happen, so the, the only thing that you can control is your mindset.
So if you, you know, take some of the pillars, for example, if [00:13:00] I kind of wake up in the morning and I go, "Okay, I have these, uh..." Let's say I have four issues. These are four opportunities for me to grow. These are four opportunities for making the lives of the people who are dealing with these issues better. These are all teachable moments.
This issue could be a critical moment and a critical memory in this person's career.
Um, and I actually had a lot of people come back to me. I've... You know, I managed a lot of people over the years, you know, since how, how... I think it's, like, since what? 2000, 2012 or something, right?
I had a lot of people come to me over years and s- and said, "Hey, now I'm a manager, and I took inspiration from when you and I had this tiff, how you handled it. And that is how I handle, you know, my tiffs now and my disagreements." And they, they were inspired by it. And it... They, they didn't think so at the time,
but, but after the fact.
It's almost like, you know, your kid's coming
back to you and say, I I get [00:14:00] it, Dad." So, um, it was, it was kind of like that. That, that really drove... Like, and I wanna wake up in the morning and say, "All right. I have a fantastic opportunity for these 31 people." Like, how can I improve their personal lives? How can I improve their professional lives? How can every touch point I have with them be a positive touch point? You know, I'm not successful all the time, right? So I, I don't want to, you know, paint a picture that's too pretty.
Um, but I think that gives me the opportunity to be a little more stoic in my demeanor, and to focus on what I can control, 'cause I can control those things.
Chris: if I'm hearing what you're saying is like you, that fundamental shift is just changing it from like, "I have to do this" to al- almost like, "I get to do this." You
and, and you just kinda shift that attitude a little bit, and that is a profound impact on these people's lives, and just you being, having the, you know, the disposition that you do.
So it's very evident then. so let's, let's dig into some of these areas a little bit further. You know, like [00:15:00] you, uh, you know, in, in previous conversations you kind of talked about the fact that you may have zigged while others zagged, you know? So you may have done things a little bit differently, and you out of the gate almost do that with, with your onboarding process.
What does your onboarding process look like? Wow.
Edwin: Yeah, absolutely. So our onboarding process, I mean, we have our typical things, right? So it's, you get set up operational-wise, here's our, all of our systems. You get onboarded to the backgrounds of the clients. You know, all that is very normal, right? But then we have a few things that we think that are very, very critical that we're not sure, yeah, I'm, I'm not sure if this is common, but I, I've, I've heard that it isn't. So we might have a conversation, one of the very first conversations you have, uh, with us, is that here are the stories of how people succeeded here, and here are also all the stories, which are obviously anonymous, of how people were let go here.
Chris: Wow. So and so brought me
Edwin: And, like, these are all the ways that they were let go. Like, [00:16:00] so and so, you know, was argumentative,
right? And they, they, they were not coachable, and this how, this is how they weren't coachable. Uh, so and so wasn't, you know, picking up a new skill, and we had all the support, and there was just really no self-progress being made, and this is how we observed it, right? So I think it's
good to see what the picture of success looks like, but it's also probably pretty important to paint a picture of what failure looks like,
Chris: I wanted a cappuccino.
Edwin: Oh, yeah. Yeah, so that's, that's something that would stand out, right? Like, you would,
you would, you would, remember that vividly.
Chris: Yeah. Yeah.
Edwin: so I think that, that part is, is really, really, uh, important, right? 'Cause I... We are 100% remote, so there are things that probably certain individuals are not used to. Um, so one of that is communication, right?
It's communication. So we would give a lot of examples of here's very, very good communication, and here's [00:17:00] what very poor communication looks like,
right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, like one of the big things that we emphasize is we want to over-communicate. Like, I want however detail you think I need, I want twice as much detail as that, because I am not physically in the office with you looking over your shoulder or having, you know, organic side conversations.
So we have to give an example of, you know, if you are a highly talented individual and you're really tunnel vision, you're not talking to anyone, even if your results are good, you're, you're probably still not gonna last here,
right? 'Cause,
there's a lot of teamwork at play.
Chris: It's funny, I was talking to somebody, I don't know, just earlier this week about that, 'cause I was, I was remote for a number of, uh, remote for a number of years, and I would go into the office every now and then. and man, I made sure people knew when I was in the office. I said, you know, I'd be, like, breaking stuff.
You know, I'd be like, you know, walking into doors and hurt... You know, just whatever it is, you have to make sure that you overcompensate and that you over-communicate and [00:18:00] that your presence. So if everybody is remote, you really, you've gotta amp that up to the point that you, you do overcompensate for the fact that there is that distance and that space, you know, between you then.
Edwin: Absolutely.
Chris: So you get, you get these people on board, and I love it. I mean, the whole idea of just telling stories, I mean, that is, that's just a huge, marketing strategy, right, is the whole storytelling and everything. But that's really what you're doing. You're, you're, you're letting them know people are gonna remember that.
That's just a fantastic way to get that in their, their head about what's gonna be successful and what's not. So now you've got these people on board. They're the right people. How do you... You get to know them a little bit better. How do you shore up maybe their weaknesses, uh, you know, that you, you've kind of maybe seen become evidence?
Edwin: Yeah, we actually do a lot of role playing. Um, so we, we, we ask questions that are open-ended. We say things like, "Hey, I gave you a magic notepad, okay? So whatever you write on this notepad becomes true. How do you wa- [00:19:00] ideally, like give me a lot of detail. How do you ideally want to spend eight hours a day?
Chris: Hmm
Edwin: Do you want to be heads down in Excel? Do you want to be coding something in Claude Code? Do you want to be talking to people all day?" I think we want a really good understanding of what gives you energy and what takes away energy, right? So the things that give you energy, they bring you different feelings.
You, you have a curiosity, a joyfulness, a playfulness, uh, a happiness, a, you know, you're probably feeling very productive. We want to make sure that, hey, those are your strengths, right? If you, if it's giving you energy, it's probably your strength. So we wanna build and sharpen your role around your strengths. And then anything that takes away your energy, you know, I don't necessarily will call it a weakness, but I would say that maybe that's something you don't want to spend a lot of your time on, you know, where possible, right? So maybe there are certain aspects of it that can be automated or certain aspects [00:20:00] that aren't as important.
And we want to make sure that we want our individuals, when they sit down in front of their computer to do work, that we have as much as possible in the strengths column and as little as possible in taking away energy column, right? Because a lot of times the things in the taking away energy column, that work is not the same quality as the work that's in the giving energy column.
And, you know, everyone has a different personality, so you need to make the little puzzle pieces match. If that
Chris: Yeah. And I mean, and like you're saying, I mean, here the reality is, are you gonna be able to do only and everything that you just love to do that's gonna give you energy?
Edwin: Yeah, absolutely not.
Chris: You know, it's just not, that's not realistic. However, I like your approach. You know, let's, let's minimize that, those activities that drain you or those things that, you know, weaken you basically, or, come up with a more efficient way of getting those things done so you can get back to the work that you really enjoy.
And, and I mean, there's the thing, right? You gotta play to people's strengths. I mean, it's like you can't fix the [00:21:00] weaknesses. Play to their strengths and they're gonna, they're gonna give you their best, they're gonna give you their best selves.
Edwin: Yeah, absolutely, hundred percent.
Chris: Now, I'm curious about training. Like, what-- Do you just give your people, like, just enough to do their job, or is there, is there more to it than that?
Edwin: There, there's a lot to training, and there's, it's a tricky puzzle that I've been trying to solve for, you know, obviously a decade plus, right? 'Cause I think when I first started out as a manager, I trained tactics.
I trained how to do something,
right? The steps to, to doing something and achieving something. But I quickly found out that that's a very limiting way to train, because the tactics change all the time. They change, in our, uh, vertical, which is, you know, m- online marketing, it's changing literally daily. So I think the more important thing to try to train is, how do you train strategy? And strategy could re- really be distilled into mental [00:22:00] frameworks, right?
Mental frameworks. I think a lot of what has made me successful as an individual contributor was not my skills and not my tactics, but more so how I approach a problem, the data points that I look at, and the playbooks that I run m- in my head, um, in order to figure out how to unravel a ball of yarn or how to tr- tackle a sticky problem. Um, so that's what we try to train, right? And we go through a lot of scenario. It's almost like, it's almost like war games, right? You go through scenarios, like what if this happens, what if this happens, then what do you do? Um, and then another big thing that I, I try to instill as a habit is I would present a problem, they'll give me an answer, and I'll say, "Okay, you did it and it didn't work.
What next?"
And I try, I ask that like three or four times, right? To really get down. I wanna make sure people understand things enough where they have a plan A, a plan B, a plan C, and a plan D, and that shows higher level thinking and it shows a level of [00:23:00] persistence and, you know, iterative improvement. I think all that is highly critical, right, in, in order for them to get trained up on it.
And then we'll do something called dry runs, where I would present a problem to them, pretend to be the client, they'll present the solution, and then I'll just pepper them with questions, And then I'll make sure that, it's almost like you're a lawyer and you're preparing for court. So we, we do dry runs like that, and I'll just pepper them with questions so by the time they actually see the scenario, they are well prepared.
Chris: I mean, you're just, it's the epitome of what is it, you know, give a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach a man to fish, he's gonna eat for a lifetime. So you're, you are helping show these people how to think, how to figure things out, because to your point, that ball of yarn is gonna change into something else, a ball of something else, a ball of something else.
They're gonna have to know how to unravel it, whatever it ends up being, you know? And, uh, and kinda keeping up with that, 'cause that is going to change, uh, just almost daily now is what, is what's happening.
Edwin: [00:24:00] Absolutely.
Chris: So man, I tell you what, I think with, with this level of attention and detail, I'm assuming that your team members, you know, they kinda hang out with you for a while.
So what, what are your thoughts on how you help your team members grow in their careers within your company?
Edwin: Yeah, absolutely. I think a lot of it comes from their personal wants, you know, their personal goals, right? Because everyone has a different goal. They have a different goal for their career, but also they probably have a different goal for them personally, right? Like, that's why we, we like to ask, what is your goal in five years? Um, and what is your goal in 50 years?
Chris: Ooh.
Edwin: Right. So I, I ask the 50 years because it really forces extremely long-term thinking, right? Is- And then based on that answer, I can get a more true sense of who they are and what they want to do versus the five-year question. I think everyone has a prepared five-year question.
Like, "Oh, I wanna move on up. I wanna manage more clients. I wanna be a manager." Like, kind of heard all that before. [00:25:00] The 50-year answers are quite different, right? Like, someone might say, "Hey, I just wanna sit on my porch and, and carve wood every day." Right? And that gives me a very different answer and a lot more insight than the typical canned answer, and then we could kind of build career maps that out that way, right?
Then we could say, like, "Okay, well, it actually seems like you like producing almost art, right? Are you more of a... And you like the finer details in things." So we'll break that down into what that actual career map looks like for their future job descriptions, right? So it's almost like a ladder that kind of goes up, and eventually, your career map should sort of map out, at least in an abstract fashion, towards their 50-year goal, right?
Because everyone has a different 50-year goal.
Chris: Very interesting. And then if I couple that with what you talked about earlier, you know, as far as playing to people's strengths, because that 50-year goal, that's gonna [00:26:00] be who they are innately and who they are naturally and who they are, you know, inside themselves, right? Without... And so if you can then line them up to play along those strengths, you know, that's, that's just gonna make that, that process so much easier for them to get, to get there.
So yeah, 50 years, I was like, "Man, that's absurd." But, but I see what you're trying to, I see what you're trying to get to there, so that's really, that's a really good approach.
Edwin: Sometimes I like absurd questions 'cause it- It kind of throws you off, you know, and then you're like, "Okay, I really have to think deeply about this. I'm
gonna give a more, I'm gonna give a real answer."
Chris: Yeah, that's exactly what it forces you to do, not the, not the canned, you know, not the canned one with all the jargon and, you know, corporate speak it and all that kind of stuff, so. All
Edwin:
Chris: right, now this one may be a little bit controversial, but it's been said that it's been, you know, it's good to praise in public and give constructive feedback in private.
Now, my understanding is you don't do that. Um, what do you do and [00:27:00] what results have you seen because of that? So what is your, what's your take on feedback?
Edwin: Yeah. Yeah. I- my take is that, yes, we love to praise in public. We still do that,
right? Um, I think that helps foster, uh, in a, a culture of lifting each other up. That's great. But we also give, we actually try to make a point to give constructive feedback in public.
Like, we will outline it line by line. So I would, I would go in a meeting and say, "Okay, this is, this is where we fell short,
and these are the four areas, and this is why, um, I f- I felt like we fell short.
A, B, C, D." And if you do that in front of everyone, I think the first couple times it's kind of uncomfortable,
but, uh, but Yeah, it, uh, 'cause y- you're just sort of calling out people's work. Um, but you'll realize that if, if you spent the dollars and the time to have a meeting with X amount of people, right? Let's have them all up. Let's, let's have everyone learn together. And then after a while, after that happens and [00:28:00] becomes ingrained in the culture, then that starts happening without you, And once that starts happening without you, it becomes a very positive feedback loop, and there's, the, the emotions of it tend to start falling away.
And I think something that's important is that I would criticize myself in public.
I would say, "Hey, you know, I, I think, I think I mishandled the situation, and if I had to do it again, I wouldn't have done it this way, and this is why. A, B, C, D."
Chris: So the logistics of this, are you saying, like, you, Leo, you'll be in a meeting and you may be six, eight people in there, something like that. You, you will-- you'll specifically call out a person and basically say, you know, "This is, this is where you could have done better," or, "This is where it went off, off the rails with you."
Um, and, and then, okay, and you'll specifically call them out, including yourself, right? Um, okay. So what, man, what needs to be in place to pull this type of feedback and this candor t-to pull it off?
Edwin: I think the most important [00:29:00] thing is if that person is in a growth
mindset and they're highly coachable, and they know that, you know, quote unquote, "calling," being called out is not a danger to them, and this is, this is a normal everyday thing that happens, and we're all doing it for the right reasons, we're all rowing the boat in the same direction, that all has to be in place, right?
And then, yeah, maybe- There will be conversations privately where I say, "Hey, this is why I did it, and this is why I think it's important, and this is where I think your potential is after you implement this feedback. Like, I think your potential and your ceiling is, is very high." Um, but I think those types of conversations are very critical to have.
It's really the hard conversations that improve things, right? It's not the, it's never the easy ones.
Chris: Which again goes right back to the first question about what is your culture. You know, your culture is how can we have the hard conversation? So that is, that's an underlying one right there. Um, one of, one of, one of the game-changing book that I read [00:30:00] was, um, Radical Candor by Kim Scott. I don't know if you- It's like, man, you know, and the whole analogy of like, hey, you know, she, uh, you know, the person's got spinach on their teeth and you're not gonna tell them, and they're just gonna go around and you know, and smiling at everybody, got these, you know, this stuff on their teeth.
Um, that's not doing anybody a favor. But you're taking that to the next level and you're helping the team out. So, you know, assuming that there's that trust and that, that, um, you know, just confidence amongst the team members themselves, that's, that's gotta be very, very impactful as far as your team goes.
Edwin: Yeah, absolutely,
100%.
Chris: Well, Edwin, if there's one great practice that you would want our audience to remember today, uh, when it comes to designing, right? I mean, this is all about designing high performance teams. What would that be?
Edwin: Uh, I think our favorite best practice so far, or great practice, has been to implement a true consistent 360-degree [00:31:00] feedback loop. And one way that we do that is we have this software, it's called 15Five. Um, and what this does is that every week it has a few questions, and we, we constructed the questions in a certain way. Uh, and in those questions, there's always an opportunity to either privately or publicly say, "Here's where I f- had challenges this week. Here's where I foresee challenges. Here's how my manager could do better. Here's how the company could do better." So the, the feedback loop is always like this. Because I think it is too easy to have one directional feedback loops, where, you know, the top goes to the rung under them and says, "Here's the feedback."
You know, obviously I think companies nowadays are really smart, and then generally they try to get feedback from the bottom to the, you know, to the top
or whatever, right?
Side to side. but I think the issue is that when you say that in a meeting, like in a one-on-one meeting, you know, you, you probably don't get... Unless there's something [00:32:00] burning,
you probably don't get an immediate useful answer, right? They're like, "Oh, you know, I think things are, are fine."
Um, but really when you get asked certain set of questions in a, in a written format, and it's quiet, and you can actually write something down, that's where we get the gems.
Right? That's where we get, that's where we get the answers that make us think, "Oh, wow, that's a real blind spot for us as
management. That's a real blind spot for us as leaders." Um, and then that's when we can do something about it.
Chris: So again, it just sounds like you are just driven by feedback, you know, on, on all different layers, levels, directions, you know, just constituents, everybody. So just what a, what a difference that makes, and you're not, you're not blind to what's going on around you. You know, you're aware of what's happening and where you can improve and what you can do to make better.
So great, great advice. Well, Edwin, we appreciate you being on today, [00:33:00] and, uh, this has been a great conversation. What's, what's the best way for someone to reach out to you if they'd like to continue this conversation, get to know more about what you do, maybe what you could do for their company? What, uh, what's the best way to do that?
Edwin: Yeah, one of the best ways is go into LinkedIn. You type in Edwin Choi, I'll probably be one of the top three, I hope. Um, or you could check out our, our site at jetfuel.agency, um, and you can reach out to us there.
Chris: Okay, perfect, and we'll include both your LinkedIn profile and your website address in the show notes, so there will be no mistaking, uh, that they got the right person then, so. All right, Edwin, we appreciate you being on again today, and, uh, we'll look forward to talking to you soon.
Edwin: Awesome. Thank you for having me on
Chris: Well, that was another great episode of Great Practices, and we certainly do appreciate Edwin joining us today. So what were some of the great practices and insights that came from today's episode? Well, I like that he just started right out of the gate when I asked him, "What do you attribute your success to?"
[00:34:00] And, uh, he said that basically your work is your best salesperson. The work should sell itself. So just really kind of a, a good foundation of what started the whole conversation about your work needs to be excellent. So now let's get into what it is that will make it excellent, which is going to be the team.
So we got into Jet Fuel's culture, and that was also very insightful, I thought, because, you know, we think about culture as benefits and perks and happy hours and games that may be around the office. But he really defined culture as what happens when you have to have a difficult conversation. How do you continue to work with each other every day?
How do you celebrate the wins? How do you operate in times of adversity? You know, he gave that great example that culture is like the, uh, a rope on a ship, that, that during a hurricane, if everybody holds onto that rope and [00:35:00] they hold onto that culture, they're gonna make it through that storm together if it's strong.
But if that culture is weak, that rope is weak, it's gonna break, then everyone's gonna just fall all over the place. You're gonna get people that are falling overboard, and you're certainly gonna have casualties because of having that weak culture. So I thought that was really a good point about the fact that culture
You know, I mean, culture can be good when everything's good, but what is culture when there's adversity around? So that's really kinda his definition of where he focused in on that. did you catch his four pillars that this culture was built upon? Number one was self-growth.
it's gonna be up to each person to take care of their own growth within the company. Now, he's gonna provide opportunities, he's going to avail them with resources, give them resources necessary to grow, but it's incumbent upon each person to really take charge of their own growth path.
second [00:36:00] pillar was communication, that respectable candor. You know, he sets it up where teammates in his company feel safe with saying, "You know what? I don't think that was your best work, and here's why." And everybody's okay with that, they understand it, and they get better because of it.
Number three, never let the hippo dominate the room. What is that? The highest-paid person's opinion. You know, we all know how that goes. Your boss's boss's boss walks in the room, and, uh, certainly they have got to be right because they make a whole lot of money, right?
So we all know how that works, but that was one of the things that he's dispelled in their culture is, like, it's okay to challenge and it's okay to bring up a different opinion and it's okay to, you know, maybe be a contrarian perhaps even in that situation. And finally, he said, "Have some fun." You know, the reality is, is at times we may be spending more times with our workmates than with our family, so it's good [00:37:00] to have fun and enjoy what you're doing.
What about his onboarding process? I thought this was also kind of, uh, unique as well. Once people, uh, came on board, you know, they would sit down with him and they would talk about, "Well, this is, these are the stories of what made people successful in this company. They were good communicators or they were problem-solvers and they figured things out and they were able to, uh, get things done on their own."
So yeah, that's a no-brainer. But then he'd also throw in there, "Well, this is what people did that pretty much got them fired and, you know, that made them not part of the team. Maybe they were argumentative or they weren't coachable or they weren't picking up a new skill set even though they had all the support in the world."
So these stories really bring it to life for employees about what works, what's going to work in that company, and certainly what's not going to work in that company. So I thought that was kinda interesting as far as that [00:38:00] approach to just onboarding. And again, that just feeds into that culture that he, uh, established early on.
What about his training? You know, he's had multiple years and, uh, being able to train others, where early on he said he trained on tactics. This is how you do something. But in any environment that we all work in now, tactics just do not work any longer because how you do something changes the very next day.
So now what he does is he trains on strategy. He provides the mental frameworks. No longer the skills and the tactics in order to get the job done, but how do you approach the problem that's ahead of you? What data points do you need in order to understand and solve that problem? And then what are those playbooks or what's that process that you've got to run, maybe in your head or on paper, in order to figure out how to solve that problem?
So that is just fantastic advice [00:39:00] because we know, my goodness, everything changes so quickly that if we learn how to do something tactically one day, the next day it's gonna be different or irrelevant. So that teaching the strategy, uh, just really is a game changer as far as being able to provide the employee with what they need.
And what about that absolutely absurd question, you know, about we all get the where do you wanna be in five years now, 10 years now, but he would ask, where do you see yourself in 50 years?" That's absurd. Uh, you know, I mean, if you're 20 and you're interviewing for that, you're gonna be 70 years old, you know?
But it was very insightful as far as, well, he said, you know, "I wanna be on the porch, uh, carving wood." Okay, well, maybe you've got an artistic bent. So whatever the answer is to that, that's ultimately who you are and what you're going to be drawn towards. So I kinda like that question.
Even though it sounded absurd on the surface, there's [00:40:00] definitely some insight that would come from that. And his unique perspective of being able to praise in public, that's a no-brainer, but also provide constructive feedback in public. You know, uh, give that feedback, "This is where we fell short. These are the reasons why we fell short."
Um, you know, he would start with basically himself, but certainly zero out employees that also fell short in a team because the trust was there, the respect was there, the fact that they understood that this was the culture, they were safe in that environment, and he realized that everybody got better because of learning from that experience.
And finally, you know, his final piece of advice as far as what would be a great practice that he would implement today, he was all about the 360-degree feedback loop. that feedback that is given, it was an absolute gift that, you know, leadership, if they look at that and they're able to [00:41:00] act upon that, they're able to make changes, will absolutely make a company better.
So we'd like to thank Edwin again for being on Great Practices today. And do you have a great practice that you'd like to share? Well, send an email to chris.kopp@gmail.com. That's chris, C-H-R-I-S, .kopp@gmail.com, and, uh, someone will get in touch with you shortly. Also, be sure not to miss a single episode by subscribing to Great Practices on your favorite podcast platform.
And if you like what you've heard, we've had great guests on, we've got many more coming. Be sure to share this with your manager, colleagues, and any others you think would benefit. So thanks again for listening to this episode, and keep putting great practices into practice.
