Making Sure Your Processes Stay in the Goldilocks Zone with Chris Tinsley
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Chris: In this episode of Great Practices, I'm joined by Chris Tinsley, director of Creative Production and Operations at Shark Ninja. Listen in, as Chris discusses, common obstacles that get in the way of things getting done. The importance of getting processes just right to overcome these obstacles and the difference between workflow management tools and project management tools.
Plus, you'll understand why you can't take things personally when people may not like the process that you built and why you should always have Goldilocks looking over your shoulder when things start going off the rails.
Chris: [00:01:00] we'd like to welcome you to this episode of great practices. Now there's a saying that it's okay to make mistakes as long as you don't make the same mistake twice. Now, when it comes to PMO leadership and project management, no truer words have been spoken.
One of the, the key deliverables, the parts of closing out a project, the key to doing things better is all about that lessons learned, that after action review or whatever else you'd like to call it, the purpose of that is to discuss and document what went right on a project, what went wrong, and then repeat the right and eliminate the wrong.
I remember many times just sitting there shaking my head and just wondering to myself, is this the first time that we've done a project like this? Because we made the same mistakes again and again and again. What happens? [00:02:00] Where is this disconnect from identifying what not to do or not doing something that should be done from one project to the next, and more importantly, how do you close that gap?
That's what Chris Tinsley, our guest today is gonna help us appreciate. Chris is the director of creative production and operations at Shark Ninja, and he builds systems that make organizations and the people within them run smarter. He has over 10 years experience leading large scale programs and cross-functional teams and connect strategy to scalable execution, creating clarity.
Alignment and measurable impact. Yes, please. That sounds amazing. Chris, welcome to great practices.
Chris Tinsley: Thank you so much for having me, Chris. Um, dude, that was an awesome, introduction. Like I love that thing. That was, that, yeah. Just so cool. So
Chris: Man, you, you, you don't have to start off like that already. It's like I already like you, man. Don't [00:03:00] worry about it.
Chris Tinsley: It's super cool to be here, you know? And just, uh, I love, I love, um, your articulation of I don't know, just that intro was awesome. So I'm just excited to be
Chris: well, if you think the intro is awesome, wait till you hear the rest of the episode that you're gonna be on here. So it's gonna be amazing. So, so Chris, tell, tell us a little bit, just tell us a little bit about yourself, a little bit about your background and, and what it is that you do, kind of like your, your day job type thing.
Chris Tinsley: Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, Chris Tinsley, I head up, uh, essentially the creative operations team, for Shark Ninja. Uh, specifically there's a portfolio of work that me and l my team oversee essentially anything that is a moving picture, right? So if you see an ad on Instagram or YouTube, Hulu Paramount, Amazon, whatever, right?
If, if it's a moving picture coming from our team out here, and you know, it's just, it's me and my team's job to just kind of make sure that. You know, all of those projects are just running [00:04:00] smoothly, you know, from like a timeline, perspective, a budgetary perspective, stakeholder alignment, um, just, it's just, you know, kind of like the standard project management stuff, but it's just with these projects that are just so, so high stakes, like the profile of 'em is just insane.
Um, so it's just, I don't know. it's cool to like, you know, lead those projects and like help a team in leading those things.
Chris: it is high visibility. 'cause here's the deal. I'm, I'm sitting on my couch, an evening. this week, and I'm seeing shark ninja products, you know, so it's just like I'm seeing that kick in vacuum, that's, you know, just destroying the vacuum that's next to it and all that kind of stuff.
So, yeah, it's, it's, it's hard. It's high profile stuff, man. I love it.
Chris Tinsley: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Chris: Chris, what are some of the, the common obstacles that get in the way of things getting done? What have you seen over your, your career?
Chris Tinsley: Man. [00:05:00] Okay. Um, I'm gonna try to keep this answer as succinct as possible and try to contextualize it. I really feel like. What causes the most friction is people aren't seeing the right information.
They're not understanding the, situation.
it's a balance between like showing graphs or a metric or a dashboard to get people to like visualize and understand, the situation at hand, right? There's a, there's a factor of command presence when you're in like a meeting with executives, right? Like you need to be able to articulate your point in a way that like resonates with whatever, audience.
you're talking to, right? Like the way that you talk to people, like on the front line, you know, of a project is a different way than you would a senior team or an executive team.
Chris: you're saying fundamentally, like communication, either doing it properly or, or improperly that [00:06:00] communication's an obstacle in getting. Things done. If it's done improperly, that's gonna slow things down in a big way.
Create all kinds of misalignment, miscommunication throughout this whole thing.
Chris Tinsley: 100%. I mean, I would go as far as to say that it's the core problem. It's like the only problem that's like. Worthy of truly solving. But there's different avenues of that, right? There's tools that you can use or create or configure, right? So you're kind of approaching it from like an engineering lens, right?
In order to communicate, a data point or just a point in general, right. Command presence when you're in like a room, right? Just being able to like have that human to human interaction. In a way that communicates your point, right? So it's like my brain just kind of sees it as like communication is just key all around,
Chris: so let me ask you this. I mean, it's like there's always the, there's always like what? People, process and technology. Whenever that, you know, you, you pick up a project and it's like, here's gonna be the solution for this thing. So, you know, communication. I'm gonna put that in the, I'm gonna put that in the people category 'cause that's a big deal there.[00:07:00]
What about, what have you seen when it comes to, having the proper processes and workflows in place? Is that a, is that a challenge from your experience?
Chris Tinsley: Oh yeah, no, that 100% is, um, it's so, it's so fascinating. Like process, you know, in some places is like a taboo term. Uh, other places lean into it, really hard. And I think that there's a goldilock zone on that whole thing. there's some company cultures, some like some team cultures that like people, we will use process as like a crutch, right?
Oh hey, that's outside of our process. We can't do X, Y, and Z. Right? But then on the flip side, like the corollary is it's like the wild west. You have no framework or structure or process, right? So then it's just anything goes right And I think it's what's so important for people in especially in an operations, you know, like role or like a program management role, just any sort of management role really is just, there's a Goldilocks to the whole thing, right? So I think it's just, and then that's where my [00:08:00] brain personally puts it back into a people thing, right? Is being able to articulate that point, being able to communicate, just the concept that there is a Goldilocks, right?
So
Chris: And, and I think, and that's a good point. It it is true. What is that balance, you know, because you go from one extreme to the other and it's you know, my experience has been, oh man, I've gotta fill out another
form.
Chris Tinsley: Yeah, totally.
Chris: know, to get this thing kicked off or get this thing. But I get it because I'm also that guy that also says, well, you know what?
I need you to fill out a form in order to have it, you know, in order to have it work for, for me. So, but you've got to make the process. As frictionless as possible. You know, that's really what you gotta do so that it just kind of goes downstream quickly. Um, is there, is there like any, I don't know, any horror stories that you've seen of how bad things can get over, you know, not having a proper plus process in place, or maybe having just an extreme process, you know, in place one, one way or the [00:09:00] other.
Chris Tinsley: Oh God. I mean horror stories in that vein, like they're endless, honestly. when there's a balance to things, that's when there's like flow and everything's good. And I, and I would go as far as to say like for the sake of conversation, anything outside of that is just a negative.
It's a horror story, right? Like you watch these people like. You know, you could be in like, in, in, in a meeting and then emotions just like overwhelmed. Like this process is it's a broken thing or you know, someone's just getting upset you could have, you know, people that are so obsessed with process that you're doing these trans continental flights of like hacks and.
Trying to redefine a process. Right. And you're just doing that like ad nauseum? I think it's just and again, my brain always just goes back to it. It's just Hey guys, there's a compromise here. There's a middle ground here. So it's just I just, I don't know. I guess for the people that are tuned into this podcast, I think just for the sake of [00:10:00] simplicity.
anything that's outside of a Goldilocks zone, keep a watchful eye because it's like there is a balance somewhere and it's just try to find compromise.
Chris: I love that. And I think that is it. It is you know, it's not too much, it's not too little, it is just right. So we're, we'll continue that Goldilocks theme, you know,
Chris Tinsley: A m.
Chris: So, so what, what solutions have you seen that is just right, you know, that just makes the process, you know, not too much, not too little.
What are some of the things that you've, uh, that you've seen that can help things flow smoothly?
Chris Tinsley: I always take like a weird angle on these things. It's getting feedback from the, from the users that are, you know, within the process that are like managing it, that are like executing it, right? It's like really understanding how the process is like working is key. And I think it's like.
You know, there's so many processes that like I've created that you know, I'm [00:11:00] kind of proud of 'em and, you know, does it kind of suck when someone's like critical of it? Yeah. I mean, yeah, it does. It does kind of hurt, but it's that's why compromise is so important, right? Because if you really like hearing the other person, right?
You're like, oh, I get it. Okay, what if we did this right?
Chris: what I'm hearing is, this is what I'm hearing you say is why don't you build the process with the people that are going to be involved with the process.
Chris Tinsley: Hundred
Chris: I think, I think that's what I'd got out of it is instead of just going and doing it in a vacuum and then just unleashing it and inflicting it on everybody, if you're collaboratively building that process together.
Man, it's, it's gotta be, you know, then it will be just right or it's gonna be close, you know? And then as far as what that goes, then,
Chris Tinsley: Totally.
Chris: Let's say you've got the process built out. You've collaboratively built it, you've kind of vetted it out a little bit or any, are there any particular tools, applications that you've found useful, uh, when it comes to actually implementing that process?
So you could [00:12:00] take some of these lessons and learned and, and bake 'em into that.
Chris Tinsley: I'm a huge proponent of the work management platform. Wrike. I feel like I could do a whole other episode of the reasons why on that. Um, I just think just in a nutshell, like from a platform perspective, Wrike has just enabled us to like, just house.
All this information when it comes to workflows and schedules and budgets and just, just any sort of data point, right. Just easily housed in there and I can slice and dice the information super quickly in there.
Chris: So this is what, this is what you use then to manage. And actually, to be honest with you, this is how I came across you because I saw that you had recently won an award from
Chris Tinsley: Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Chris: what was that award again?
Chris Tinsley: Uh, it was the Wrike Elite 100
Chris: Okay. What does that mean exactly? Because that's a big deal. What is that?
Chris Tinsley: totally. So, I mean, it was, it was pretty cool. It was, um, so [00:13:00] like, uh, Wrike as an organization likes to recognize its, its customers for excellence in certain arenas. so I submitted an entry, a few months ago or something like that for the.
Innovation category and uh, I almost feel like I could do another podcast on what I did in the platform for that.
Chris: We could do that later.
Chris Tinsley: yeah, totally. Totally. Um, but it was like, it was, it was, it was super cool where you know, you got these, these folks from the product team at Wrike and the, the customer experience team, right.
As like the judges on this panel, right. Saw my submission and they were really impressed from like a metrics perspective, from the different ways I configured the platform. And uh, you know, I got voted into the top 100, right? So there's a list of 100 folks and then, There's eventually a finalist in each each arena. And just after some more team members [00:14:00] reviewed my submission, I somehow managed to win the category. So I was, yeah, I don't know. It's still a, it's still a surreal thing. It's just really cool to be recognized for something like this by my peers. It's, it's super
Chris: Well, that's awesome Chris, and congratulations because I know that is a, that is a big deal there for sure.
I am a user of Wrike as well, and, uh, I am a, I'm a fan of Wrike. I think it does a, I think it does a nice job, and that's really how you and I cross paths, but the rest of you know, the rest of our conversation. Will not be just necessarily wrike specific, but it can be applied to asana monday.com.
Click up like any of these really, because it's the principles that these help us to do. So, Is there a difference or what is the difference between a project management tool? A workflow management tool. 'cause that's really how Wrike and a lot of these other, you know, applications build themselves as a workflow management tool.
Is there, is there a difference between these two types of [00:15:00] platforms?
Chris Tinsley: just the fact that they're two separate terms by default means they are two separate things. Um, I think what's really just cool about work management platforms these days is that they can kind of be configured in a way that like, supports both, right?
Um, I almost feel like I could do a podcast episode on this, so maybe I'll come back. Well. But it's you know, you've got like an execution team that's more concerned about the workflow of, you know, like of, of a deliverable, right? They're, very focused on creating a thing, the stages of that thing can be some sort of a backlog.
Not started, ready to start in progress in testing. compliance, review, yada yada. Right? So it's important to have a data set that supports those teams. Right? But in the same vein too, there's a separate audience that's a part of the project that cares more about like risk, right?
So you're looking at something like an overarching kind of like timeline of you know, like certain stages of the [00:16:00] project and whether or not those things are, you know, on track, off track, or at risk. They're like two separate sets of information that compliment each other. And, what I've noticed is it's important to keep those two things distinctly separate because they serve two different, use cases.
And what I've seen a lot of teams do. Is they try to blend the two things together and that's when things get really crazy from from a data hygiene perspective, like bloated schedules. You know, it's fascinating. It's, but I think just the fact that they're two separate terms, I think it's important that that's a, that's a distinction that's important.
There are two separate things.
Chris: I don't know, I don't know what your experience has been with this, but I've used, you know, Microsoft Project and Clarity and all of these other full-blown project tools. It seems to me as if these workflow management tools are a little, a little more forgiving and a lot more flexible is what is, what my experience has been with them is [00:17:00] that, you know, you could get in, you can quickly adapt and adopt and move things around and change things.
That has been my experience with it. Any way just seems to be a little faster for business, I guess, is what I've, is what I've seen my experience with those.
Chris Tinsley: Yeah, 100%.
Yeah,
Chris: So do you, what would you do, like if, let's say you've, okay, you've collaboratively met with somebody about, um, the process, you know, or a team or teams, and you've fleshed this out.
So let me ask you this question then. So do you typically flesh out the process first and then put it in the workflow management tool, or do you put it in the tool and then flesh it out?
Like you were talking about you work collaboratively with these teams. Where are you doing that? Are you kind of doing that offline then you bring it online, or are you just, are you just kind of doing it collaboratively in, in real time?
Chris Tinsley: That's a great question. I feel like it's like a hybrid. It's a hybrid in the sense that you know, if we're talking about like a [00:18:00] workflow, you know, we'll go like classic route. You know, we're in a conference room, we've got like a whiteboard and we're kind of like drawing a path through. Right? And we align on that and, you know, cool.
We're all holding hands on that. That's, that's great. And then typically what we'll kind of do is, you know, we'll just like document that on like a whiteboard app of sorts, right? So this is cool, like that's our process with a small group of folks. But then we'll start to actually configure the platform to then be supportive of the workflow.
Right. And we'll kind of do a beta test with a core group, and then we're kind of just taking in a and iterative approach of going back to the whiteboard and redrawing it out. Right. And it's a collaborative effort the whole time, but it's I don't know, it's just like we're just testing in real time.
it's never ending, right? Because it's like we're always gonna find a friction point, like somewhere. [00:19:00] And so we just run the same play. We just go back to the whiteboard. Cool. Let's tweak it. Boom, boom, boom. Just keep going.
Chris: And that is where that gap is closed, you know? That we talked about at the very beginning is okay, we've identified this gap and yes, it's never gonna be a hundred percent this, this workflow is never gonna be a hundred percent, but man, every single time you're gonna iterate and it's gonna get better and tighter and faster and more accurate every single time.
So, so what I mean when you say is you probably get maybe the initial plan 70. 75% of the way. There you go. And throw it in the tool, uh, and then it's gonna, early on, it's gonna be bumpy. That's always been my experience. It's oh man, it's, it's a lot bumpier than I thought it was gonna be. And it's gonna be a lot, you know, there's gonna be some things that are dropped and that kind of stuff, but every time you go through it, it gets better and better and better.
Um, and then you just, like you said, I like that you just iterate and make it, make it a, a much better process.
Chris Tinsley: Totally, totally.
Chris: What, um, [00:20:00] avoidable mistakes have you seen people make over the years when it comes to implementing a workflow management tool? You know, something like Wrike or Asana or any of those other tools that are out there.
Chris Tinsley: I love this question I think it is, and I always go back to people. Um, 'cause like work is comprised of people.
Chris: That's what I've, that's would've been my experience.
Chris Tinsley: totally, totally right. So it's like the thing that can, like really throw things like off the rails is a lack of empathy and humility across all. Like with like within everybody on the team, I just feel there's no perfect process. There's no perfect tool, there's no perfect configuration. There's a Goldilocks zone for all of this stuff. And I always just go back to the means to get to the Goldilocks zone, right? Like you gotta, you gotta have compromise, right?
You [00:21:00] have to listen to other people. And the only way to do that is with a level of like empathy and, and humility. So it's like. I don't know. I just feel like the managing and the execution of projects is just, it's the most human thing. It's just, it's a very human thing, you know?
Chris: Very interesting. I did. I did not see that response coming. 'cause again, I would think it'd be something, you know, to do with the way it was configured or the way it was implemented. But again, you're going back to the people empathy. Compassion, humility, you know, listening to others, the collaboration. So if you've got that buy-in from the beginning.
And if you don't have that buy-in, that's what I'm hearing. There's the mistake that people make is they're probably just gonna, yeah, I know best I'm, I've, I got this figured out, I'm gonna just move forward. It's then you're gonna run into problem. So that is a, that is a great avoidable mistake right there for
Chris Tinsley: Yeah, absolutely.
Chris: So, Chris, if there's one great practice that you'd like our listeners to walk away with [00:22:00] today when it comes to this process improvements or talking about these workflow management tools, what would it be?
Chris Tinsley: Just one. Okay. Just one.
Chris: Just one.
Chris Tinsley: Just one. If I had to pick one,
Chris: Yes.
Chris Tinsley: it's un it's, it's understand. How people work, right. It is just, again, I think the management and execution of projects is a very people-centric thing and I think above all else, you just need to understand how to like, like rally teams towards a goal. There's another part of me that's, there's the technical engineering part of me, right?
Where it's like you need to know how to. To create and configure a platform in a way that's like user friendly. Right. But I think the one that like just Trumps it all is people.
Chris: People first. Okay.
Chris Tinsley: first. Yeah.
Chris: Got it, man. All right. We're gonna, we're gonna throw in a bonus question because like I [00:23:00] said, I have, uh, I've seen many. Uh, shark Ninja commercials and products, and it's always just been kind of a cool vibe, um, whenever I see those and it's a cool thing, whatever it is that, uh, that you guys are promoting and advertising.
And I've heard a number of podcasts myself about Shark Ninja's approach. To innovation. And you know, I'm paraphrasing and you certainly know it better than I do, but what I've heard is that, you know what, uh, what you guys do is you go find the bad reviews on Amazon, you find out what people hate about a product or what's missing, and then you fix those problems and you say, Hey, guess what?
Now here's a product that solves all these problems that you were complaining about. Um, so. Is that, how can we apply that approach to what we do when it comes as PMO leaders, project managers, you know, that type of thing. What, how can we take that approach and apply it to that line of work?
Chris Tinsley: I don't know. I'm kind of having an aha, as, we're talking right now because as an [00:24:00] organization, like it's a very cool. Perspective. You know, when we're creating like products where we're like seeking the feedback, we're trying to understand like what the pain points are, like what problem are we really trying to solve, and then we make it our job to solve that problem.
And it's that's what we're doing when we're like managing projects. Like you are trying to solve a problem. You're trying to make sure that you like that. You produce a product or you know, you ship a project in such a way that it's on time and on budget, high quality, right? Like that, that, that those are all problems that you're trying to solve, right?
And there's friction points all along the way. So seek those out, right? Because. That's what's gonna kind of create that flow. It's, it's almost, it's a really interesting question where it's like, there's so many callbacks to this conversation that we're having where I'm just like, whoa.
seek those problems out because that's what we're doing. We're [00:25:00] literally solving problems. So just go find them in advance and all of a sudden, you know, things are just flowing smooth.
Chris: To your point, it's about the people. And if you're asking the people what kind of problems they're having, that's ultimately what, that's ultimately what you're doing. You're listening to them, you are, uh, taking their input and then you are making the process or whatever it is that much better, which is exactly what you guys do at Shark Ninja with products.
So same, the same principle there. So, um, I told, I told you this, I told you this was gonna be a good conversation. You know, you started out there, right?
Chris Tinsley: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely.
Chris: So, well, we appreciate you being on today, man. What's the, what's the best way for people to get ahold of you if they'd like to discuss, uh, this topic of process improvements, uh, you know, implementation, wrike implementation, anything like that further?
Chris Tinsley: you can find me on, um, LinkedIn would probably be the best way to get ahold of me. So it would be, um, linkedin.com/in/chris [00:26:00] Tinsley separated with a dash, so Chris Dash, Tinsley.
Um, other thing I'd kind of want to throw out there is, um, I do have a consultancy called Frame Found. Uh, we are a consultancy that, is operation centric for creative and, and marketing teams. Uh, we will help you guys, create processes.
we'll work through that. We also do. Um, configuration of work management, platform. So if you have anything, if you're trying to roll out anything that is Wrike, Asana, or, Monday, we can help you out there. Uh, and then we also do, um, just kind of general implementation, uh, with your team.
So we could either just create you a process and hand it over, or we could actually bring your teams in, uh, and coach them, right? So we're kind of a, like a one-stop shop, uh, in that sense.
Chris: What and what is, what is the website? Tell me, tell me the
Chris Tinsley: [00:27:00] Oh, thank you so much for that, Chris. Uh, you can find [email protected].
Chris: Frame found.co. Excellent. Well, Chris, thank you very much for being on again today and we've got a lot of the conversation and, uh, we'll look forward to talking to you soon.
Chris Tinsley: a hundred percent Chris. Yeah.
Chris: And, uh, I'm now going to go fix my bowl of porridge and make sure that the temperature is just right.
Chris Tinsley: Love it. Love it.
Chris: All right, man. See you.
Chris Tinsley: All right, Chris. Well, that was another great episode of great practices, and we certainly do appreciate Chris joining us today. Well, what were some of the great practices and insights that came from this episode? I like the fact that he started out with.
One of the most common obstacles that gets in the way of things getting done. It wasn't about tools or workflows or applications or anything like that. It was the fact that people aren't [00:28:00] getting the right information. So right out of the gate, he was very people-centric, focused on the fact that communication is the core problem, and if that can be solved, things can be so much easier, uh, as these projects and programs progress.
Now he brought up the challenge with the process, uh, because once we've got the people side of things figured out, we certainly need to walk over to working through processes. And it's kind of a two-edged sword. 'cause sometimes he said people will use processes as a crutch, nothing can get done, or they will not do anything because this process is in place.
Then there's the flip side of this, there's the wild west, anything goes. So that's not a good scenario either to work within. So again, he was reiterating the point that things need to be just. Right. And that's really where he was getting into that, to that [00:29:00] Goldilocks zone.
there's a certain balance and there's a certain flow where things are just going very swimmingly, I guess you would say. Uh, but anything that is outside of that. Is considered negative. Anything outside of that goldilock zone that's just right needs your attention to fix. And that could be too much of a process.
It could be too little of a process, and so you just need to find out where is that middle ground in order to keep things flowing smoothly. And this was, I guess it was pretty much revolutionary. but I think we've all been guilty of it. You know, we build a process and we build a, a framework that we want people to work within, and we're so proud of it, and we spent all this time and we build it on our own and we release it, and then people hate it.
We get our feelings hurt because of that. It's like, how could you hate this? Don't you know how much time I spent putting this together? But the point that Chris was making, which is absolutely [00:30:00] critical, is build the process with the people that actually are going to use the process. They're gonna give you just that invaluable feedback that you're gonna need in order to make sure that it is again, just right, uh, in order to get things done within your organization.
I like the difference also that he brought out between what a workflow management application does versus a project management application and that they can actually compliment each other.
A workflow management tool really focuses on which stage, uh, a project or a task is that, is it in backlog, not started, ready to start in progress in testing compliance review? Where is it in that workflow? I guess that's why they call it a workflow management tool that this project or activity is. Where a project management tool really focuses more on our things, on track, off track, at risk,
So it's really two different sets of [00:31:00] information that compliment each other when you use these two different types of tools in getting work done. But where would you even start, uh, when it comes to putting a process together that you would put in a workflow management tool? I like the fact that he says you could start wherever you wanna start.
You could start in a conference room and you could whiteboard what that process should look like, and then you could put that into the tool and then you could iterate on it, or you could flesh it out in the workflow management tool, uh, beta. Test it with a core group, test it in real time. Then once there's friction points found, once things are slowed down, once things get outside of that comfort zone, uh, just run that play again.
Make it better and better until it's smooth and it's just right and back into that gold deluxe zone. And finally the fact that the one great practice that Chris recommended actually was two, was understand how people work. Projects [00:32:00] are people centric. So it's up to all of us to understand how to rally people towards a goal.
And the other insight that he had, which all of us really, it's so easy to take for granted is, is ask people about feedback and get their pain points. Seek out those friction points, ask them questions, seek out the problems, and then go solve those.
And if you do those things, you're gonna find that you're gonna get rid of a lot of the common obstacles that get in the way of getting things done. So we'd like to thank Chris again for being on great practices today.
And do you have a great practice you'd like to share? Well, you could just email me at chris dot [email protected], chris dot [email protected], and uh, we'll get in touch with you shortly. Also be sure not to miss a single episode by subscribing to great practices on your favorite podcast platform. uh, we've had some great guests on, we've got many more lined up already for the [00:33:00] next months, be sure to share this with your manager, your colleagues, and any others you think would benefit.
So thanks again for listening to this episode and keep putting great practices in the practice.
