[00:00:00.330] - Chris
In this episode of great practices. I'm talking with PMO Joe. Joe Puzz, founder of the PMO squad and the PMO leader. Listen into this episode to get PMO Joe's assessment of the current state of PMOs. You're going to be shocked by the dismal statistics, why PMOs are in such a bad state, and what you can do as a PMO leader to make 2023 a transformative year instead of just a trans transitional year. Plus, find out why Joe thinks PMO should stand for Pizza Management Office and why everyone should start asking how good their projects taste.
[00:00:36.930] - Narrator
It's hard to say when something is a best practice, but it's much easier to know when something is a great practice. And that's what this podcast is all about. Interviews with CMO and project management leaders who for years of trial and error, have discovered their own great practices and are now sharing their insights with you. Now sit back and enjoy the conversation as Chris Copp uncovers another great practice in this episode.
[00:01:06.150] - Chris
Well, we'd like to welcome everyone to another great episode of Great Practices. We have an exciting guest on today. Joe Puzz. You may know him as PMO Joe. So we are going to finish the year strong with having PMO Joe himself on Today. Now, why do we have such a guest on Today? Because we're going to be talking about some heavy stuff. Like what? Like our PMOs going to survive? Or are PMOs going the way of the dinosaurs and soon to become a distant memory? We'll see inklings of this extinction from time to time when the economy gets tough. Because here's what happens when things are going well. PMOs are all the rage. Everyone's excited about the structure and the discipline and the accountability that they're going to bring to an organization. Then over time, if things aren't done right, people get tired of the administrator and the overhead and the non value add activities that sometimes seem to creep up with PMOs. Things slow down, the economy gets tough. Who's the first to go? PMO happens maybe every three to five years, but it seems like each time it happens right now, it gets a little bit more deliberate, a little more decisive, and a little more longer lasting.
[00:02:34.210] - Chris
That's why we're at a watershed moment when it comes to the very existence of PMOs. Are they going to survive or are they going to die? And I like that word watershed moment because it basically means it's a turning point. It's the exact moment that changes the direction of an activity or situation. And it's usually considered momentous, and it's usually considered momentous in hindsight, not as you're going through it. You know, kind of like when the Beatles changed music. People in 1962 didn't realize that they were going through a watershed moment when it came to rock and roll. But looking back, there was no doubt. Well, our guest today has been yelling from the rooftops that something has got to change with how PMOs conduct business. And he has the foresight of telling PMO leaders what they need to do in order to survive rather than the hindsight of, hey, whatever happened to these things we used to call PMOs? So, Joe, we'd like to welcome you to great practices today.
[00:03:39.990] - Joe
Thank you, Chris. So glad to be here and be part of the show. I love the past episode you've had as well, and being part of that mix, I think is fun. I agree with you. This is a watershed moment. We have to be looking to the future to find out what we're going to do to make sure that we're value add and that we are part of the solution and not just part of the problem.
[00:04:03.980] - Chris
Yeah, there's no doubt about that because it is easy to become part of the problem, isn't it? For those people that may not know, you want to tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do?
[00:04:16.850] - Joe
Absolutely. Joe Puzz. As you mentioned, some people call me PMO Joe. I'm the founder of the PMO squad. We're a project management consulting firm that's been around for about a decade, but also founder of the PMO Leader. We're a global community to bring like minded individuals to not talk about certifications and framework and process. How do we actually make a difference, how do we advance our profession? And really, I'm just a project manager at heart who went through the corporate world, recognized a bunch of gaps, and decided to go out there and start a firm that could help companies do projects better. We don't do it well. The data tells us we don't do it well. Our industry associations tell us we don't do it well. And for 50 years, we've kind of been doing the same thing over and over again. So I'm here to help us move forward, right? We want to leave the next generation of project managers in a better place than what we received from those who came before us.
[00:05:24.630] - Chris
Noble mission, for sure. So you've got the PMO Squad and then you've got the PMO Leader, which is going on, and that's really where this podcast is hosted and we're grateful to have you on today. So we're looking forward to getting your insight into some of these topics then. Now, you mentioned the data, right? So one of the things that you, the PMO Squad does is they'll put out a survey every now and then as far as, hey, what's what's going on in the PMO industry? Can you tell us a little bit about that survey? Is it annual? How many people types of questions? What does that look like?
[00:06:03.010] - Joe
Yeah, most people are probably familiar with PMI's pulse of the profession, which comes out annually and surveys project leaders from around the world. A lot of the big industry heavy hitters deloitte and PricewaterhouseCoopers and others, they all do their surveys as well. So we're in that mix, but we go smaller, right? We go after PMO leaders globally and try to get in depth with them on specific topics to learn more than just capturing general items. So it's a longer survey. We get usually about 100 to 125 respondents. None of them are customers of ours, so they're independent organizations from around the world and we try to learn maybe stuff that the other surveys don't ask. Do you have military experience? How does getting training in a military, regardless of which country you're from, how does having military training impact your ability as a leader? I don't think I've ever seen a question related to that in any of the surveys I've been asked to participate on in our industry. So that's just one example. But we do it every other year or so. We'll have it. The latest results will come out here later in December and we'll share that with everybody.
[00:07:29.180] - Joe
But it's not just our survey, it's what do we see in our survey that aligns with all the other surveys.
[00:07:37.590] - Chris
[00:07:38.210] - Joe
And when you see those trends of multiple surveys telling you the same message, we should listen, right? I mean, it's multiple people telling us the same thing. But I don't think anybody, and again, I'm going to probably overstate this, but I don't think anybody in our industry pays attention to the global messages that come out from data point after data point after data point telling us the same things, because I don't see anybody trying to change it.
[00:08:04.760] - Chris
So let me ask you about some of these data points. So when you've had the survey out there, what are some of the concerning statistics that you've seen that have come back as far as the survey goes?
[00:08:17.230] - Joe
Yeah, I think the number one and again, you'll be able to see all of this in the survey when we release it in December. But one of the data points we've already released as a teaser is that only 43% of the PMO leaders we surveyed actually rate themselves as having a successful PMO. I was struck by that. I'm like, so what are you doing about that? Are you preparing for your next opportunity? I just don't get that. Right. How can we have such poor performance that way? Only 59% of the PMO leaders measured executive leadership satisfaction with the PMO, which maybe is related to the other one now. And we know why only 43% consider themselves successful. 60% rate or get feedback from their executive leaders, but 40% don't. How can we, as leaders of a function in an organization, not know what our executive leaders think about how we're doing? That's killer. We have to know that sort of information. Another one that struck me is that 78% of the PMOs didn't have or don't have a formal process to measure their own PMO value. So again, we're just existing to exist. If we're not asking the people who are our customers if we're not measuring what value we provide and if we self admit we're not successful.
[00:10:00.910] - Joe
Those three things to me are screaming from the rooftops, as you mentioned, and as I posted on LinkedIn a couple of weeks ago, it's time to change something. It's just not working.
[00:10:11.330] - Chris
Why do you think you know, like like you said, that one about 59% measured executive satisfaction. 40% don't. Why do you think 40% don't? Is it that they're just too busy? They can't get around to it? What's what's going on there?
[00:10:27.750] - Joe
We don't have an answer directly, so I'm going to I'm going to go off of my experience with the people that we've talked to and customers. And what we're finding is people are being promoted into leadership roles over the PMO without leadership training. So it's the good, experienced senior project manager promoted to PMO leader, and he or she is good at executing projects, but not the politics of an organization, not finding customer satisfaction, not determining value, not managing a team and a budget. Right. They're missing on those leadership aspects. Because a PMO is different than a project, you can't manage them the same way. And it feels as if the data is pointing to that direction that the industry manages PMOs similar to how we manage projects. And the disconnect there is obviously project versus organization. Right. I mean, it's a huge chasm that we're not hitting.
[00:11:28.910] - Chris
Very interesting. Yeah. So, I mean, it's like the technician side of the project manager is promoted into that PMO leader role, but that executive side isn't there. And that, of course, kind of would leave that gap. I could see that that could absolutely happen with that. 40%. So these are startling statistics, right? 59% don't measure executive satisfaction. 78% don't have formal processes in place. Why should these statistics worry PMO leaders?
[00:12:04.310] - Joe
Well, we live in a world today, right? We call it this project economy, whatever we want to call it from our industry standard. But the reality is people are leaving and transferring and switching jobs frequently, more frequently than ever in the past. So if you ran a poor PMO or your executives came from an organization where there was a poor PMO, they're bringing all of those experiences to the new organizations they go to. And you're bringing bad examples as a PMO leader to the next organization you go to. We're spreading the virus unintentionally, but it's happening. Our poor performance allows us to unfortunately suffer from the effects of Pmoitis. Right. The virus is spreading throughout the world of poor PMO performance. And that perception goes from leader to leader to leader and from PMO executive to executive to executive without any corrective actions in place. It's just going to keep spreading. And we as an industry hurt or suffer from it. Even if we run a good PMO, the perceptions are out there that PMOs are not good. Right. So we're always in an uphill fight because of this, and we have to try to find a way to reverse it.
[00:13:21.330] - Joe
What's the cure for the pandemic, the PMO virus that we're suffering from?
[00:13:26.610] - Chris
Yeah. It's like you're guilty by association, even though absolutely, you haven't done anything yourself, and maybe you're doing a great job. But it's tarnished, right? The reputation of the PMO is tarnished already.
[00:13:40.100] - Joe
Yeah. There's been so many times we've gone in to talk to a client, and first we talked to their executives before the PMO leaders. We asked, what's your thoughts about the PMO? Oh, the last organization I was at that PMO is horrible, so I don't even worry about them here. Well, you could have the best PMO in the world, and you already lost your executive before you even got a chance to sit down with them. Right. That's common. Too common around the world for what we were doing as an industry, to be able to correct those things. So that's what we're looking for. How do we change it? Right? How do we transform what's going on?
[00:14:17.250] - Chris
And you mentioned at the beginning, you said we've been doing the same thing for the past 50 years. The data has been the same, the results have been the same. What is that? What is that trap that is so easy to fall into? As far as being a PMO leader and running projects, I think we fall.
[00:14:39.320] - Joe
Into what we're familiar with. What's the path of least resistance? It's easier for me to not put together a survey and ask questions that people are going to give me feedback on myself. I can tell myself that I'm doing a good job and hope that others think the same thing. That's easy for me to do. It's hard to be able to go ask somebody, Am I doing a good job? I remember back the first PMO I ever ran. I've told the story on my radio show several times, but it was at Bell Helicopter. I have my first performance review, and Benny Peak, my supervisor, asked me, Joe, how do you think you're doing? And I thought I was doing great. I mean, Benny, I'm killing it. This is awesome. I love it. Thanks for the opportunity. And Benny then told me how poorly I was doing it and what I was missing on. I had never taken the time to ask Benny what I was doing in advance of my review. I should have been polling him frequently to understand what I needed to do better, what I was doing well, what I could improve upon.
[00:15:48.750] - Joe
But it was easy for me just to be caught up in my own statistics and how the PMO was doing within the PMO as opposed to the PMO within the organization.
[00:15:59.170] - Chris
Like you're saying, it could be just as simple as asking, but man, it takes guts to ask, because you may not like the word that comes back they may say, yeah, like you're saying you're not doing that great.
[00:16:11.110] - Joe
Well, they think it anyway. Whether or not I'm asking, they're already thinking it. I'd rather know what they're thinking so that I have an opportunity to correct it. Yeah, right. Today at the PMO squad, we had a client call us up and tell us that one of our consultants needed to improve on what they were doing. The project manager, when I talked to him about it, said, I wish they had told me I could have been improving all along. But this is where we fail as leaders, that we don't step up and have the courage to go ask other leaders, because we're leaders amongst leaders, and everybody at that level should be comfortable to seek input, to know how well their team is doing. If not, then you really shouldn't be in that position.
[00:16:58.760] - Chris
Yeah. And it is easy to get defensive. But to your point, what we should say is thank you for the feedback. Thank you for taking the time and being able to shoot straight with me about that, because that's the way you're going to get better.
[00:17:13.820] - Joe
[00:17:14.090] - Chris
And we can appreciate that feedback. It's a gift.
[00:17:16.550] - Joe
Yeah, I absolutely agree with that.
[00:17:20.730] - Chris
I think, too, there's kind of the old school way of thinking, the way that PMO leaders used to be measured, right. Time, scope, budget, and that's all that it took. Right. If you were able to manage time, scope, and budget, you were good. Right. But you've been talking about 2023 being a big year when it comes to PMO transformation. Right. Transformation is a big word. What does that look like to you? What do we need to start doing differently when it comes to transforming our PMOs?
[00:17:56.390] - Joe
Yeah, the contrast for me is transition. Are we going to transition to a new way of doing a PMO or are we going to transform? So a transition could be current PMO is not performing well. Let's bring in a new PMO leader and have them exercise the same processes that we've done. We've transitioned to a new leader. We haven't transformed anything. When we transform what we're doing in the PMO, all of a sudden now we're looking at the journey that the PMO is going to go on to improve the organization. How do we provide positive impact to this organization as a department, as a function, not as a project level? So time, scope, cost, those are good for project measures. How well is the project performance? There's probably some betters, but it's a good start. But the key measure is, is this PMO providing value to the organization? Is this PMO allowing the organization to achieve strategic objectives that they've laid out? Does this organization provide the competency that this organization needs to execute projects successfully? We're not talking about a project. We're talking about all of the projects. That level of thinking is a mindset shift.
[00:19:19.650] - Joe
That again, we go back to. A lot of PMO leaders have been promoted from project manager roles, so they run the PMO like a project. Is my PMO on time? Are we on budget or are we on scope? They're not thinking like an organizational leader. So you have to transform from project mindset to leadership mindset and then transform into a delivery function as opposed to a management function and to be able to take the organization to achieve strategy value outcomes. It's a major change for the way a PMO leader has to be thinking.
[00:19:57.230] - Chris
Yeah. I mean, you're saying that it's like, oh, okay, yeah, that sounds easy. That's all you got to do is.
[00:20:03.920] - Joe
Just those things shows over.
[00:20:06.050] - Chris
[00:20:08.450] - Joe
I was going to say, but it isn't right. If it were easy, then everybody would be doing it. Right. So I get that it's easy to say it hard to do it. And that's oftentimes where we need some assistance to be able to go about it. There's a lot of associations in the industry and organizations, right. PMO global alliance house of PMO. The PMO leader. There's groups out there that are all working to try to improve the way we do PMO leadership, but there isn't a single group kind of like PMI has cornered the market. Right on. How do we make the project manager better? We don't have that sort of organization for how do we make the PMO leader better? So lots of people are trying. I don't think that there's been a collective answer around the world yet as to what that looks like. Right. A good example. When the Agile Manifesto came together, everybody came together. They wrote a manifesto and said, this is what we're going to stick to. And nobody went and created their version of that. They all worked with the same answer. We haven't quite got there as an industry.
[00:21:19.420] - Joe
So we're at the infancy of trying to make this transformation, which is a good thing because you can be part of it. Everybody out there can be part of transforming how we lead PMOs and get away from the mindset of how do I run a project? The organization is different.
[00:21:36.210] - Chris
Yeah, we're at the PMO leader sticky note phase. We haven't quite made it to the manifesto stage yet. Right. But it's beginning. So the beginnings of what's coming together for these notes and where that needs to look like is on its way right here.
[00:21:53.350] - Joe
The business world has already told us we have to transform. You see popping up around the world. Strategy Realization Office the Value Management Office. All they're doing is relabeling a PMO and telling you what's important to them. Help me realize the strategy. Help me deliver value by calling it those two names. We should have been doing that a decade ago. Two decades ago, the business world realized we weren't. So they're telling us we need to listen to them. Give me what we want. Transform. How you deliver what you deliver and when you deliver it so that you can actually provide the value they're looking for. Otherwise we're going to be out in the cold. We're going to be the first ones that go when budgets get cut like it's historically been.
[00:22:48.950] - Chris
So we're looking at a revolution and not an evolution. Right. That's ultimately what needs to be happening here. Where would anybody even start this journey? So you talked about the things. It is a mindset shift and it's an attitude shift and it's even like capabilities shift. There's a lot of things that's involved in this. Where would you even begin to start this journey?
[00:23:14.590] - Joe
The good news for us is the solution is already all around us in other functions and other business models. And what we can do is learn from others who are doing it well today and emulate that to deliver it within our own context. For instance, I'm an upstate New York guy. We eat pizza all the time. Right. I grew up on pizza. I have my own pizza oven now. Pizza is just part of my existence. And when I find a good Pizzeria, I want to keep going back to that Pizzeria time and time again. So what makes a good Pizzeria? I walk in, I can smell that I'm in the right place. I can hear the sounds of Italian music playing in the background. The service is perfect for what we're looking for. The owner comes out and asks after the pizza has been delivered, is everything okay? Does your pizza taste good? Right. That's a direct line of sight to them. Understanding their service has to reflect into the desires of the stakeholder. That's a perfect model to emulate. We're not going to be flipping pizzas in the PMO, but we should be asking our sponsors, does your project taste good?
[00:24:35.050] - Joe
They need to be our sounding board for how well we're delivering on the work that we provide for them. Right. Are we providing the sounds, the aroma, the service? Are we touching all of the senses in an organization to ensure what we're delivering meets their expectations? If we're not, let me give you some service in return. Let me make sure the next pizza is on the house. What can I do to earn your business? These are all things that the service industry has already told us, but we haven't embraced yet as a PMO industry to make sure we're doing for our internal customers.
[00:25:14.870] - Chris
So to your point, it could be just as easy to start this journey of asking how you're doing, right? Like you're saying, did that project taste good? And get that very honest feedback.
[00:25:27.050] - Joe
Yeah. Every project, every PMO should be asking that question. We need to get that feedback. That's the beginning of the mindset and be ready for the answers. The truth hurts sometimes. We can applaud that there's other organizations and other functions that already have this down within our own organization, the sales department. What does the sales department do? If we think about them, they have a process they're supposed to follow. They are trying to track new people to come to our organization, buy our goods and services. And if they're able to do that, we reward that salesperson. The goal is to close the deal. And when you close the deal in enough volume, we reward you. The organization is used to that, right? It's do what you're supposed to do. We reward that behavior. Usually they don't tie their hands with process. They don't tell them, you have to update the CRM system before you get the customer signature. In the PMO world, in the past, or even the project world, the Pinbach was all process based up until this last edition. It was forcing process on us as opposed to the outcome. The closed deal of the project is, did we deliver that good or service and the value that we were supposed to?
[00:26:49.480] - Joe
But we get caught up thinking about, well, you didn't complete the checklist, so I can't let you pass the gate review. Right. There's people laughing at us in the organization that we're so bureaucratic, we're so heavy, we're so overweight with what we're trying to accomplish. We don't understand the value of the business. And part of that is because we're not tied into the operations of the organization. Right. 90, 95% of the company is about making the goods and services or widgets that we do and that's operations projects. All the change that happens in the company is off to the side. So we get project team members who don't want to be on our project, but where a project is to try to make the company better. And we're getting people trying to run away from our team. We're not embedded into the operations mindset of the organization. So we're outside of their normal rhythm, outside of their cadence, outside of their behaviors, outside of their structures. So we're not seen as an insider. We're not part of the company. We're the ones doing it to them as opposed to we're one of the ones doing it with them.
[00:28:01.440] - Joe
And again, this is that transformation that we have to go through to change that mindset.
[00:28:06.420] - Chris
It's a massive shift, but desperately needs to be done. And I mean, again, like you're saying, we fall into the outputs versus outcomes mentality. We need to be focusing on outcomes. Not so much just all the artifacts that are delivered along the way, what is helping move the business forward. So if you can get to that place, great place to be, right?
[00:28:33.380] - Joe
Yeah. And that doesn't minimize the need to have outputs. They're the means to the end. We haven't been looking at the end. We've been spending all of our time on the means. If I order a pepperoni pizza at my favorite pizzeria and they come out with a veggie one and the owner says, how do you like your pizza? I said, well, it's not what I ordered. He says, oh, but our Veggie pizza wins all the awards. You should eat it anyway. I'm not a satisfied customer. It doesn't matter how good that veggie pizza is. Right. So they followed their own process to produce the award winning pizza.
[00:29:12.670] - Chris
It's not what you wanted.
[00:29:14.100] - Joe
Exactly. So I'll never go back again. This is what we're doing. We're creating pizzas that nobody ordered. Our pizzas don't taste good to the organization. We have to find a way to make sure that they understand that we care. Does their pizza taste good? Does their project taste good?
[00:29:30.470] - Chris
And I was thinking about it when you were talking about ask them what they want. Tell them to be truthful with you about how you're doing. A great tool to be able to put all of that information into is just that basic SWOT analysis. The strength, weakness, opportunity, and threats. Because you can take that information and you can plot it out then and then you could methodically attack it. Right. And you could say, this is what we're going to do differently as a PMO, because this is what they're saying they want us to do so we can get there. If we do these things and just kind of charting it out that way, they're going to give you gold and information if you ask that question.
[00:30:09.650] - Joe
Absolutely. Another contributing piece to this is stop using our custom language. Right. A lot of data from PMI and others that say an engaged project sponsor is the number one way to encourage a successful project. Why are they called an engaged sponsor? Do they know that they've been labeled this when they're running an operations activity? I don't think they give them the name sponsor on this thing. Right. Again, I understand why we have our nomenclature and our culture of project management and all that is positive. We need to have that to make sure that our profession is common across boundaries, but within organizations. That doesn't mean we have to say it to those internal teammates, hey, Chris, you're my executive sponsor today. Versus hey, Chris. I'm running this project for you. What can I do for you? You lost him when you called him an executive sponsor because his brain started thinking about, well, what is that? So there's a way for us to be able to approach the business unit, to make them be inclusive with what we're doing and not finding ways to put them at arm's length. WBS doesn't mean anything to them.
[00:31:28.810] - Joe
Critical Path doesn't well, Critical Path means something completely different to them that we use thinking it's our terms. Sponsors and raid log and all of these words that are project terms are good for us within our team. But how do we communicate that outside the organization, outside the PMO organization, so that the business is working with us? This is part of the. Transformation. Right. They use SWOT analysis. That's a great tool within the business to use. We should be using that with them as well. I totally agree with you.
[00:32:02.230] - Chris
Just speak their language, right? Just partner. Partner with them is what it comes down to. Sit at the same table. Okay. Those are some very concerning statistics, some very concerning revelations about how PMOs have been operating and certainly appreciate the need for transformation. Are there any good trends or any good statistics that you're seeing or that came in from this survey?
[00:32:28.190] - Joe
I think the primary trend that we're seeing now is that the discussion has begun. Organizations are creating SROs or Value delivery offices or PMOs, and they're labeling something different. So the trend is active. The water is starting to boil, which means that I think the transformation is about to grow across the industry. So that's a positive. Right. And there are groups like the PMO Leader and House of PMO and others that I mentioned, PMO, Global Alliance and many more. Right. So there is a movement to make it better. As far as the data within the survey related to this, I'll just say, hey, I won't give away some of those nuggets. Tune into the PMO Squad website to be able to check that data out. And of course, we'll be sharing that out there with the world as well.
[00:33:22.450] - Chris
Excellent. And that's in the very near future is what it sounds like. So sometime in December. So that'll be good.
[00:33:27.570] - Joe
[00:33:28.610] - Chris
All right. So let's just say somebody just tuned in. They can only listen to this one portion of this podcast. What one piece of advice would you give to a PMO leader who wants to make 2023 the transformative year? What would be that one piece of advice?
[00:33:45.910] - Joe
I'd get out a sheet of paper and I would write down a high level process that you follow today as a PMO leader on the left side and call that as is good. I'd do a column to the right of that called Transformation, and I would write down the opposite thing of what I'm doing today.
[00:34:03.360] - Chris
[00:34:04.350] - Joe
And I would say, what would it look like if I did it like the transformation column compared to what I'm doing today? Would that make things harder, easier, better, worse? And then I would pick one or two of those things and have the courage to say, I'm going to commit to starting one of them on January 1. Don't try to do it all at once. Work your way into it. Even go back to your executive, because the first one should be plug into your executives. But come up with that list and go to your executives and say, here are some of the things that I'd like to transform the way we're doing so we can provide better value to the organization. What are your thoughts on these? And by doing that, it's going to make you think already differently than you're doing today. And then you're going to engage the people who are your stakeholders and your customers to make sure they're okay with that change. Again, simple change. Not a lot of energy, but can have a huge impact on how you're perceived in the organization and the way that you're delivering.
[00:35:06.410] - Chris
And it starts that dialogue and that relationship where you can go back and say, how did that project taste to you?
[00:35:14.080] - Joe
[00:35:15.480] - Chris
That's exactly what it does.
[00:35:17.140] - Joe
Remember that phrase in 2023? I want to hear people around the world asking, did your project taste good?
[00:35:24.280] - Chris
Yeah. Fantastic. All right, Joe, well, how can people find more about the PMO Squad, the survey, everything you get going on with the PMO leader, what's the best way to get a hold of you and see what's going on in your world?
[00:35:39.610] - Joe
Yeah, I think obviously, LinkedIn is a tool that we're all out there on. You can find any PMO leader, PMO Squad, me, we're all out there on LinkedIn, but go to our website, pmosquad.com or the PMO leader.com. Find out more about us there. The PMO leader is a global community. There's no cost to become a member of that community. And I think there's tremendous value in what you have access to as a member. So highly encourage you to join there and out on PMO Squad again, we'll have the survey results. We have all the shows that we've done. We have great templates and resources that are available for people, and of course, we're here to help organizations deliver projects better.
[00:36:21.500] - Chris
Excellent. Well, thank you very much for this wake up call today for all PMO leaders and realizing that next year it's got to be about transformation. Don't keep doing the same thing over and over and not thinking you're going to get left behind. Right. That's what's going to happen there. So appreciate you being on the show today, PMO Joe, and we certainly look forward to talking to you in the near future.
[00:36:42.910] - Joe
Awesome. Thank you so much, Chris. Look forward to 2023, the year of transformation, and appreciate everything that you're doing with this show as well.
[00:36:51.650] - Chris
All right, thanks. Let's go eat some projects.
[00:36:54.220] - Joe
[00:37:00.390] - Chris
Well, that was another great episode of great practices, and we definitely want to thank PMO Joe for being on today and sharing his insights into what he's really seeing as a wake up call for all of us when it comes to being PMO leaders in 2023. So what are some of the stats that he started out with here? 43% of PMO leaders say they have a successful PMO. That means 60%, around 60% say they don't have a successful PMO. 59% of PMO leaders measure executive leadership satisfaction, and 78% of PMOs don't have formal processes to measure their own PMO value. Now, those are startling statistics and something that we really need to pay attention to when it comes to being PMO leaders. And what the future of PMOs are. So Joe then went on to share a whole bunch of great practices with us, right? Just kind of giving us insight into why this is happening. The viral PMO, itis where nobody is really stopping the spread of maybe these bad practices that are going from organization to organization. We had the great resignation lately. A whole bunch of jobs changed and positions changed. But are we just taking these poor practices with us and these expectations from organization to organization, and then we just find ourselves guilty by association because somebody was used to a bad PMO somewhere else, and they just assume that's where it is, where we're at.
[00:38:36.620] - Chris
So we need to remedy that if we're PMO leaders. And really what is that trap that people and PMO leaders are falling into? It's that trap of familiarity. Maybe it's that trap of the path of least resistance where it's easier to not ask questions. Nobody's really complaining about how the PMO is doing, so let's not ask questions and figure out what's really going on. That's the trap that people are falling into. And then it's too late because when times get tough, that's when PMOs disappear. I loved this. It was a quote that Joe said in here. As far as we have a tendency to kind of view our own performance within the PMO, how are we performing within the PMO versus how is the PMO performing within the organization? That's the question we need to be asking. Now. Certainly our activities and our experience and abilities will lead into that. But ultimately, how is the PMO performing within the organization? And if we don't like the answer to that question, he brings us to another question. Are we going to transition to a new PMO in the new year, which is just kind of like a small incremental change, or are we going to transform?
[00:40:01.470] - Chris
Which is major, right? We want to focus on the transformation in 2023. Not just are we delivering projects on time and scope and under budget, but more importantly, is it providing value to the organization? Are we achieving strategic executives? Are we providing competencies to execute projects successfully? That's the value of the PMO. That's a transformation and not just a transition to, oh yes, we can give you this report faster on how the budget was on this particular project. And he brought out the point too that I thought was interesting is, you know what, the business world has been telling us what they want us to do for a while now by renaming PMOs. So there's now the Strategy Realization Office. There's the Value Management Office. So business is telling us, saying, help me realize strategy. Help me show that we can bring value into the organization. So if we can do that and we can partner with that side of the business, that's a game changer, that's transformative. And when it comes to changing PMO to pizza management office again. Joe being an upstate New York guy, pizza is part of his existence. Keeps going back to this example time and time again, which is very appropriate, right?
[00:41:32.170] - Chris
It's like when you go to a pizzeria, you're going to order what you're going to order. You're going to want what you're going to want. You're not going to want them to say, no, you're not going to get that. You're going to get this instead, and you're going to expect them to come out and say, how is everything? How did that pizza taste? So his goal for 2023 is to get everybody basically asking, how did that project taste? Did that project taste good? And if it doesn't, we can make some adjustments based upon that. So if you had nowhere else to start other than one piece of advice that he gave, this is what he said to do. He said, Get out a sheet of paper and put down what you're currently doing, the as is processes, and then write the exact opposite of that. Write down the opposite. And what would it look like if you did the opposite of what you wrote down on the as Is? Would that bring value to the organization? If the answer is no, then don't do it. But if it is yes, then that's the transformation. Transformation would be the exact opposite of what you're doing if it does indeed bring value to the business.
[00:42:44.950] - Chris
So we'd like to thank PMO Joe for being on today and definitely thank him for taking the time. Great way to end the year with solid episodes of Great Practices the entire year. And we want to thank all of our guests for being on throughout 2022. Now, if you are looking at 2023 and you've got a great practice that you'd like to share, go to the PMO leader, click on Explore then Great Practices Podcast, and fill out the form at the very bottom of the screen. Someone will get in touch with you shortly. And be sure not to miss out on any episode by subscribing to Great Practices on your favorite podcast platform. And if you like what you hear, be sure to share this with your manager, your colleague, anybody that you think would benefit from listening to Great Practices about PMOs. So thanks again for listening to this episode and keep putting Great Practices into practice.