[00:00:00.240] - Anna
In this episode of great practices. I'm talking with Anna Morgan, recruiter by day and job search strategist by night. Listen into this episode to get a recruiters view of the PMO and project management job prospects, what you can do to find a new position. Hint it starts way before putting your resume resume together, what you should never do when looking for a job, and how to make the most of phone and virtual interviews. You'll also learn the relationship between your LinkedIn profile and your resume and that it's got to be more than just copy paste. Plus, find out how Anna came up with the hashtag career BFF and learn how she became both a rescuer of dogs and careers.
[00:00:43.840] - Narrator
It's hard to say when something is a best practice, but it's much easier to know when something is a great practice. And that's what this podcast is all about. Interviews with CMO and project management leaders who, through years of trial and error, have discovered their own great practices and are now sharing their insights with you. Now sit back and enjoy the conversation as Chris Copp uncovers another great practice in this episode.
[00:01:13.840] - Chris
Well, we'd like to welcome you to this episode of Great Practices, and we have been through an interesting couple of years when it comes to project management and PMO careers. The supply and demand curve for project managers kind of fell on the demand side in a big way, where companies, they just couldn't find enough project managers and PMO leaders to fill seats. Then we've been through the great resignation.
[00:01:42.040] - Chris
[00:01:43.690] - Chris
They didn't even have a job. Maybe they didn't like what was on the menu that day and they decided to quit. And within a week, boom, you could see them on LinkedIn and they're saying, oh, I'm happy to say that I've accepted this new position at a new company.
[00:01:56.060] - Chris
This whole strange, quiet quitting narrative, which.
[00:01:59.370] - Chris
Fortunately seems to be taking a little bit of a backseat. And now maybe it seems as if that supply demand curve is shifting a little bit toward the employer side where companies are being able to fill positions a little bit quicker. So what a ride this past couple of years has been when you reflect on all of this that's going on. Wouldn't it be nice to have someone that was going on this ride with you to help you navigate the way? Maybe your best friend could come with you on this trip? Maybe your career's best friend? Well, that's who we have on today. Anna Morgan bills herself as a career BFF and is a senior recruiter and job search strategist. So we're absolutely looking forward to what insight and advice she can provide when it comes to our project management careers. So, Anna, we'd like to welcome you to great practices.
[00:02:55.310] - Anna
Thank you, Chris, for having me. I'm so glad to be here and to become a career BFF to you and all your listeners, so I really appreciate it.
[00:03:04.300] - Chris
Excellent. Well, we're looking forward to this conversation. So let's start off, first of all, just kind of telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do.
[00:03:12.340] - Anna
Absolutely. I hail from Atlanta, Georgia, and I am a recruiter by day, a job search strategist by night. I have been a avid rescuer of animals and also of careers. I am an advocate for ADHD and neurodiversity. I tend to talk about supporting the underdogs and many of those with squiggly careers tend to have been affected by addiction or recovery or alcoholism. And in service of breaking the stigma of addiction. Talking about addiction, I tend to share a little bit of my story. I have been sober for eleven years, but I pride myself on being a talent leader. I have worked all different types of industries and I want to create great experiences for both hiring teams, candidates and also serving job seekers as I do as their career BFF through my coaching practices, the BFF Method and Twelve Step career BFF.
[00:04:25.330] - Chris
Fantastic. You kind of sound like a superhero. You're a recruiter by day, job search strategist at night, right?
[00:04:32.470] - Anna
That's right. Yeah. Multi dimensional personas, right?
[00:04:39.280] - Chris
That's good. Now I love that career BFF hashtag that you use everywhere. Can you tell us a little bit about where that came from?
[00:04:46.800] - Anna
Yeah, so I kind of hinted at it earlier where I had been thinking about my business. I decided that I was ready to coach and bring together my recruiting expertise, my sales and business management, and my personal branding elements, as well as just being of service. Decided to start my business right before the pandemic had hit. And I was brainstorming with a creative friend who's known me for a long time and who knew my obsession with rescuing dogs. And he said, Anna Morgan a dog's best friend. And then he looked at me and he said, Anna Morgan a career's best friend. And then just the light bulbs went off because it just absolutely embodied kind of my energy and my personality and just what a career BFF is. And so then I decided to run with the hashtag Career BFF. And I've built a following with that hashtag, mostly on LinkedIn, but I definitely use it in other places. And it just is that little branding element that helps people understand what I'm all about and to find an easy way to follow me and be a part of the hashtag career BFF movement.
[00:06:07.840] - Chris
Yeah, no, it's great. It's very easy to understand. You immediately get it when you see it. So nice job coming up with that one.
[00:06:15.960] - Anna
[00:06:16.960] - Chris
So let's talk about careers and what's going on in the marketplace right now. So how is the market looking for finding a new position in general right now? What are you seeing in the marketplace?
[00:06:30.180] - Anna
Yeah, absolutely. It's been like the Wild West out there. There's a lot of varying elements depending on industry and position, title and or level, I think your industry and the folks that you typically engage with and talk about you will still continue to have demand for your type of talent. As companies look at doing things better and more efficiently and streamlining processes also in service of solving the reshuffle, the quiet quitting, the great resignation, companies are looking not only in the PMO kind of process that you focus on, but how they can have a healthier workforce, a more engaged workforce. And in order to do that, my hunch in intuition is saying that that is going to require more resources. Now, insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results. I sometimes wonder when companies will experience enough pain financially that they will start to really wake up. And this, you know, to the fact that more resources, more people, more investment in your people will create a better bottom line for them down the line. Right? Unfortunately, we live in this instant gratification. We want everything now and yesterday that we are, I think, still in some of these ups and downs depending on the positions.
[00:08:18.630] - Anna
But overall, I am cautiously optimistic that Q one of 2023 is going to look pretty decent from a hiring perspective.
[00:08:29.850] - Chris
Okay, that's good. You can't really forecast much further than that, right? I mean, a quarter is pretty good. You're saying that companies are investing or focusing on a more engaged workforce, so they're realizing that they have to do that. What are some of the things that you're seeing that companies are doing to have a more engaged workforce?
[00:08:53.210] - Anna
That's a great question. I mean, I think they are hiring more resources, different teams, like more bodies to help do the amount of work that needs to be done. One, I am seeing companies become more creative with attracting top talent, which definitely creates some challenges in certain spaces. As far as can they attract completely remote talent? Can they offer flexibility with hybrid options? Can they flex on vacation or other total comp features that really lean into again solving some of the reasons that we've had some of these reshuffles where job seekers and people in general are just more in touch with what's really important? And do they want to give all of their energy and time to an employer or a function that is draining and not great for their mental health? Or takes them away from their families? So you're definitely seeing more of these conversations. And I feel like this is something that we can be thankful for, of the pandemic that it has started, more of these conversations about mental health and looking at our employees and associates and leaders as more than just their title or more than just that piece of paper of a resume.
[00:10:24.410] - Anna
So, you know, benefits, travel. I think job seekers, especially younger ones, want more self development. They want more certifications and training and performance management and clear career tracks is what I'm seeing as I'm working with talent, not only coaching, but interviewing through my day job.
[00:10:49.030] - Chris
Yeah. So it's interesting. So it sounds like that engagement, it's really kind of to be successful at that, it's got to focus around flexibility and really balance right for the employees.
[00:11:02.890] - Anna
I think flexibility, I think the companies that are going to rise above and stand out are those that really are a people over everything company right. That are more than just talking the talk, they're walking the walk and understanding. If you don't have the right people or resources in place, you can have the greatest widget or product or service, but if you keep having this door that's revolving, eventually it's going to catch up with you. So flexibility, authenticity. I think the rise of continued employment, branding and social selling is going to be critical and it's going to require more people than just the marketing or the talent teams to be involved in spreading the message of who the organization is and what they're all about in order to retain and attract top performers.
[00:12:06.880] - Chris
Yeah, it's very interesting how it's changed over these past couple of years, isn't it?
[00:12:11.010] - Anna
It is. I mean, I faxed my first resume.
[00:12:16.460] - Chris
I dated myself there, so let's kind of shift gears toward an employee mindset now. So what is the best path? What's the best way to find a new position? So how would you even begin to talk to somebody about that?
[00:12:34.800] - Anna
Yeah, I have really strong feelings about the resume and I've been kind of reconciling this with myself recently. And you're probably one of the third or fourth people that speak about this too. I'm a recruiter, so I look at millions, thousands of resumes every single day and I make decisions on them a hundred times a day. However, I do not like that the resume gets all the attention when it comes to getting a job search because there are so many steps prior to updating your resume. Right. It's your mindset, it's your motivation, it's your mental health. It is. You have all your accomplishments and brag book together so that you could actually have a conversation. I think anyone who ever considers to make a change that it would be in their best interest to always be visible on LinkedIn, not just coming to LinkedIn. When you're angry at your manager or you didn't get your performance review marks that you were hoping for, or because you're worried that there's pending layoffs happening, this is where people get themselves into trouble. And what I have learned from my personal experience that my visibility on LinkedIn has created a ripple effect of not only career insurance, but opportunity after opportunity because people resonated with my story, with my content, they trusted my leadership voice and therefore I was top of mind.
[00:14:18.270] - Anna
And that is where job searching has changed from ten years ago. There's that social selling or I call it like social job searching. If you are consistent and showing up in some kind of capacity on LinkedIn, you will have more consistent incoming opportunities. And when or if you need to call on your community for support, you will have earned the right to ask for their support.
[00:14:49.010] - Chris
Can I tell you a story? Absolutely. I know I'm asking you questions, but you just flagged it to me. I don't know what it was. It was 20 years or so ago, and I had a young family. We're at Disney World, and I got a call from my manager, said, hey, I got some good news, I got some bad news. The good news is you can take a longer vacation. Bad news is you can take a real long vacation because the company's going out of business. So basically, there I am with these two small kids and wondering what I'm going to do when I get back.
[00:15:22.840] - Anna
And your whole paycheck at Disney.
[00:15:25.030] - Chris
Exactly. And I had not done what you had just said about being visible. Right.
[00:15:29.790] - Chris
And it was a different time back.
[00:15:31.420] - Chris
Then, everything like that. But I remember coming back and I remember picking up the phone and saying, hey, this is Chris. I know I haven't talked to you for ten or 15 years, but I need something from you. Can you help me out? I went through that conversation over and over, and it just did not feel right now, people were gracious. People helped me out. But at that moment in time, that was when I started my social campaign of just sending out, like, a monthly touch base newsletter with some tips and tricks that I found useful to my network. And I just stayed visible for all of that time right there. And that made such a big difference, because that is the worst feeling, when the only time you go to somebody is when you're going to need some help from them. That's exactly what you're talking about. So you're saying, just be visible. Put that value out there, constantly show up, and that's when it pays off. So basically, I'm not saying you should always be looking for a job, but that kind of you're putting yourself out there in the market to be able to do that.
[00:16:33.790] - Anna
Right? It's so that you always have incoming opportunities. Right? Because they're going to see a lot of people get completely freaked out that they're like, I have to be a content creator. And it's like, no, you don't. LinkedIn just wants to know that you're here and there's a way to build your profile. So if you did want to be found, recruiters like me could find you, and we would really appreciate what's in your profile. But it's just that it's that brand awareness, right? So if you're looking for a job, if you're an active job search, there are three things that you should do. You want to apply to positions because that is a problem companies are looking to solve. Two, you should be building your personal brand and then be active on LinkedIn. So building your personal brand and I guess being an active on LinkedIn are essentially the same thing. So if you are looking for a job, again, you should be applying for positions. Be visible on LinkedIn and then networking. So conversations convert and that, like you had said, was the tricky part. If you are consistently keeping up with people in your past, people that you volunteer with, connecting with, people that you volunteer with or go to church with, or that your kids play ball together, all of those connections, the most unlikely connections, are the ones that can open the biggest doors for you.
[00:18:14.230] - Anna
And if you do those three things, you should have success. But there's a lot of times a lack of balance between those. And like I said, people get fired up that the resume is the first thing that they have to do, when in fact, if they had been networking, staying visible and then doing some of the inner work because I believe working on ourselves, staying healthy, mentally, physically, spiritually, those are the things that sell the resume. I mean, I've hired and advocated for people, thousands of people, that did not have a great resume. But there was something that made me reach out. I had a conversation, they were again, way more than a piece of paper and ended up being incredible hires, that I was able to be that person that gave them a chance. So I think people have a much greater chance of elevating themselves when, one, they do the work on themselves, two, they build their brand and three, they network.
[00:19:21.790] - Chris
So it almost sounds like a resume is a formality. If you're doing it the way that you're talking about doing it, right, you got to do it to submit it and that type of deal.
[00:19:33.150] - Anna
Okay? But this is where on the flip side of working and recruiting and being a talent leader, that I'm having the tough conversations to help change the way we hire. And I loved your question in our preshow conversation about like, does a resume even matter? As a modern day recruiter, I 0% prefer the LinkedIn profile over a resume.
[00:19:58.270] - Chris
[00:19:58.860] - Anna
But how you structure it for what its primary purpose is for, there's some variances there and I don't think the resume is ever going to necessarily go away. But how will we do this moving forward and how will we do it with more equanimity and less bias?
[00:20:26.660] - Chris
What is the difference between a resume and then what it would look like on a LinkedIn profile? Is it just not a matter of just kind of copy paste type deal or is there a difference that you have to do when you put it on LinkedIn?
[00:20:40.420] - Anna
I believe your LinkedIn profile should be something that complements your resume.
[00:20:47.490] - Chris
[00:20:48.240] - Anna
Because again, with what we've experienced through the pandemic of realizing that, wow, we are more than just employees. This is a way for you to, from a personal branding place, connect with people. It's oftentimes that golden thread of commonality that makes someone go, I get that person right? Or, oh, I coached lacrosse too, or oh, I am an advocate for breast cancer as well. Those connection points build trust. And when we trust people, we hire them just like brands. If we believe in their purpose and the problem they solve, then we will buy them. An example is like, I'm someone who's struggled with my weight up and down, but when I see an Athlete magazine or a Lululemon advertisement advertising a medium to larger sized body, I'm like, I want to support them. So it's that psychology of connection. So the LinkedIn profile should be different than the resume. It should kind of elevate the resume. Tell a more creative story, if you will.
[00:22:07.440] - Chris
Well, and I think you're marketing yourself, right? So it's complementary. But then that is the whole classic know, like trust, you know, that you have to do from a marketing perspective, you know, that, you know, raise that awareness, like what you're seeing. And then there's when the trust will come from that. So, you know, makes perfect sense as far as how that would flow. So we've talked a lot about what you should do when looking for a new position. Let's go the other way. What should you never do that you do see people do a lot that people think is like, oh yeah, this is what I've got to do. What falls into that category, you know.
[00:22:47.310] - Anna
I have so much compassion for job seekers, especially those that have been in job search for a longer period of time because it is so overwhelming and so confusing. And so there are a lot of people, especially on LinkedIn and other places. TikTok is really bad too for this, where people are touting themselves as coaches and experts and they've never hired anyone. They've never looked at resumes, they've never sat with hiring managers. And so I would say watch and be aware of the content and the voices that you listen to. There are so many things that I'll try to be kind another trend that I see when people get laid off, they make this long emotional post about their previous employer and then they say they're looking for work, but they actually don't give us any tangible nuggets to grab onto from a memory standpoint. They're just like, oh, I'm looking for an HR coordinator position. Like, give us a little more like, what kinds of industries are you interested in? Tell us a little bit more of a story. Because what storytelling sells. Stories make us remember things. Like, if you think back way in the early stages, what did they do?
[00:24:11.140] - Anna
They just sat around and told stories. Do your research before you talk to recruiters have some thought provoking, not Google searched questions to ask, send thank you notes. This has been a thing where it's like, you think that that's a normal thing that people do, but it's becoming less and less and then follow up. Especially with recruiters, I am seeing where people are like, oh, I follow up twice and then I forget about it. Well, with all due respect, if you saw my inbox and my email, I would recommend if you've had a first line screen with a recruiter and need an update and haven't been dispositioned from the APS that you can at least follow up, I would say three to four times. Because in recruiting, timing is everything, and recruiters want to get back to you, but the pure volume of roles that they're managing sometimes is unmanageable. And in order for you to get that visibility, definitely follow up. What else not to do? Don't burn bridges. Watch what you say on LinkedIn because your social credibility and your social proof matters. And there is that ripple effect that you can't control.
[00:25:46.460] - Anna
And I believe it's. Okay. And I share very vulnerably about my story. But those are all things that, if I was sitting in front of a hiring manager, I would not be ashamed to talk about. And so I invite that same kind of curious communication style on social platforms and other places.
[00:26:07.460] - Chris
Yeah, you said a couple of things. Follow up three to four times. Now, when we're talking recruiter, are we talking like a corporate recruiter? Like, somebody that is working for the company you want to work for? Are we talking about like, a third party recruiter? What would be the difference there?
[00:26:27.190] - Anna
I think it would be both the agency or third party recruiter. If they're not getting back to you, they probably don't have a client that they can represent you for, or they're probably thinking they can't make a commission off of you. Your chances of getting a response from them are probably not great. Okay. And I think maybe this is my sales background or just that I always have demonstrated a lot of grit and hustle and, you know, get out there and get an answer, but don't be afraid. I never looked at a candidate and was like, oh, my gosh, Kris is following up again. If anything, I was grateful that they sent another message because then I'm like, oh, wait, you know, that job didn't work out for Chris. But now since I've talked to Chris, I have another position that's perfect for him. So follow up is also a way to build your brand and build the relationship with recruiters. And I think that's why I coach about the behind the recruiter concepts as well, because there's so many nuances that job seekers think they should or shouldn't do. And I'm like, let's try this and see if it works.
[00:27:47.140] - Chris
What is some of the think back over? What are some of the more creative ways that you've seen people try and differentiate themselves even to you, like, is there things that were they were going to be top of mind. What are some of those more creative things you've seen?
[00:28:01.390] - Anna
Well, I mean, it's just the human nature. If they took the time to look at my and this is before I had grown the visibility that I have now on LinkedIn. But if they had grabbed a personal element from my profile or demonstrated that they had a unique perspective on the company or really understood the product or the service or the vision and the values of the organization so customizing that and then communicating in an outreach message in a way that they would want to be communicated with. Right. A way to stand out is to proactively use language that demonstrates that you've done a little lifting on your side. So many times we get resumes that say, hey, I see your recruiter. Let me know if you have a match for me. And our purpose is not to match you with jobs.
[00:28:58.320] - Chris
[00:28:58.810] - Anna
Our purpose is to find talent. And that's a big misconception of job seekers that they think recruiters. It's like we have these magic wands, and we can just put people in these buckets and make perfect placements happen.
[00:29:16.610] - Chris
And that is a nuance right there that you just said because recruiters work for the companies, basically. Right. So your job is to find a talent. That's your main job. Right, right. Versus if you're in the market looking for a job, then maybe they can fit you in that bucket. But that is like you're saying. It's like you've got to come with more of a direction.
[00:29:40.410] - Anna
Well, and come to us and say, hey, Chris, I'm curious if you specialize in this area of recruiting, most recruiters should have a profile built that if you're a finance person and you're hitting up the marketing recruiter, you're probably not going to get very far. Right. So one that's reason to do your research on who the person is, and then if you're specific about, hey, I saw this posting with this rec number. Do you manage it? And here's three reasons why I feel like my background is a good fit. Would you be open to a quick conversation, or would you be so kind to point me in the right direction? As long as it's short and concise and they demonstrate that they've done some work, we're usually more than happy to point them in the right direction.
[00:30:28.010] - Chris
[00:30:29.440] - Chris
Okay. So this is what I'm hearing so far is a resume is still a thing. It's going to play a part in the job search. There's a lot of pre work that you should be doing in a foundation. You should be laying, like, for months and years ahead of that. LinkedIn should complement your resume and just kind of maybe bring you more to life and kind of maybe turn you into more of a human being is what I'm hearing through that?
[00:30:57.640] - Anna
[00:31:02.590] - Chris
Now we're at the point where we've got an interview, right? So you kind of laid all this groundwork. So let's kind of give you a little bit tactical about what that looks like now. So our phone interview still a thing? Is it all being done on zoom and teams now? What are you seeing that transitioning or transforming into?
[00:31:25.310] - Anna
Yes, so phone is definitely still a thing. I typically do about four to ten phone interviews a day in my current contract. And I don't think phone is going to go away because teams and Google meet and zoom conversations just require a heavier lift. Right. But I do think with hiring managers, we're seeing still more of the virtual interviews. Organizations that have been back in the office, they might be having people come in. I haven't seen a ton of that yet. But with phone screens, there's still an element in doing well in the phone interview. And that's with showing up with your energy, making sure that you've done the research on the person that you're talking to, on the job description, and that, you know, your resume. That is a big area that or your experience. But this is why I go back to the inner knowing and the inner work that sells the resume. If you don't really know what you've done or what you like, it's really hard. It doesn't matter if you have all the great statistics and impact statements and qualifying numbers. If you hated it and didn't believe in it, it doesn't matter.
[00:32:50.760] - Anna
That's still going to come across and whether it's a phone, a virtual, or in person interview. But yes, phone interviews are still very much a thing, and it's interesting to see how people take them. Some get super nervous and they want to do their 1 minute pitch right off the bat, and then others are like, where are you calling from? I didn't order that.
[00:33:16.840] - Chris
Now, what about tips for like, video interviews now? Because I mean, that's a thing, right? So what are your tips for that?
[00:33:26.810] - Anna
Yes, so try your technology beforehand. Make sure that it works and that you have a backup plan. And that is the thing that I have unfortunately seen. It doesn't matter if you're entry level or executive level. They're just like, I don't know what happened. And I'm like, but this is kind of a testament to how you might prepare for a project or a presentation. So we recruiters pay attention to that. So make sure that it works, that you've tested it out, and if you're having trouble because you've gotten this far, you have earned the right to ask the recruiter to do just a quick mock test with you or whoever's facilitating scheduling that for you. If they don't, that might be a red flag. But make sure your background is professional. If you use a. Virtual background. Just make sure it doesn't make you look crazy. Test out your audio so people can hear you. I recommend that you have lights behind or on the side of your computer. So many people will turn their ceiling lights on, which cast awful shadows on your face. And people want to connect with your eyes. It doesn't matter if it's through your profile picture on LinkedIn or through Zoom.
[00:34:52.720] - Anna
That's really how you're going to connect with your audience. So make sure your visual aesthetics are.
[00:34:58.920] - Chris
Such yeah, great advice. I mean, yeah, look directly into the camera, all that type of thing. And you're right. I've interviewed people and literally they're just phoning it in because they're sitting in their car in a parking lot or.
[00:35:14.700] - Anna
They'Re now the car. If they tell us ahead of time, like if they're employed because we want to talk to people that will make time for us sometimes. If they are smart enough to give us the professional courtesy to say, hey, Will. You please let your VP's know that I will be in between appointments and I'm going to have to take the call from the car if that would be looked upon. Not favorably. We can find another time. Now that's where it comes into play with building trust with your recruiter and your recruiter helping to manage that experience with you as a job seeker.
[00:35:53.290] - Chris
Got it. Great advice. Well, this person didn't give me the heads up, so yeah, well, and they.
[00:35:59.620] - Anna
Do and they might be or what's the point? I see so many people even in business meetings nowadays that never turn their camera on. I'm like, why are we doing this on teams?
[00:36:11.950] - Chris
[00:36:14.060] - Chris
Well, this has been a wealth of knowledge and insight from a very unique perspective and just really appreciate, really appreciate your view on things and just really good advice on how we could how we can navigate this career path that we are going down there. Is there anything else that you can share that will help our listeners with their career that perhaps we haven't covered?
[00:36:47.960] - Anna
What else? I would recommend this is an area that even myself, like, I wish that I had done a better job of keeping the Brag book or documenting keeping a career journal of my wins and my successes. I definitely recommend people have not only this kind of brag book of their quantifiable accomplishments and things that they have accomplished in the professional arena, but also include things where you might have done it outside of the professional environment because those stories always speak to your leadership. Right. And again, that marketing connection piece. So make sure you're tracking that. And for those that might be struggling in the job search, also create kind of like your I'm great folder or a place where you can keep your receipts or your screenshots or the things that people say about you that you're naturally really good at. Because when we sometimes start a career journey or think about making changes. We actually forget how unique and skilled and powerful and amazing we are and we get into this space of trying to make ourselves fit in these boxes, which again is what ignites that imposter syndrome and breaks people's confidence.
[00:38:17.010] - Anna
So if you're maintaining those things, you will always have a place to come back to. And that's how you can be or people can be a career BFF to themselves when they take that radical ownership of making sure have the things that they need so they can remember what they're capable of and really what matters to them. So they can progress through a search or through getting a promotion or moving through an organization with ease and flow. That's a big thing for me that we don't have to be in constant angst in our careers. We can truly do work that we like and enjoy and that is a part of something bigger in serving organizations and their primary purpose.
[00:39:05.590] - Chris
Now you've mentioned this Brag book like two or three times throughout the conversation. What have you seen that Brag book look like? What are you talking about there?
[00:39:15.480] - Anna
So I picked up the term Brag book from another fellow coach of mine that works with pharmaceutical sales folks. But it's basically a folder of where you keep all of your assets, like your different versions of your resume. When your coworker sends you a message in an email that compliments you like just get in the habit of screenshotting that and dropping it into a Google Drive. So one you can go back to it and remember what you're all about and actually that you are good at your job because we all have those weeks where we're like what's happening and so it can be whatever you want it to be. Essentially some people like to keep a manual journal of tracking each quarter or each week what they have accomplished. Do what works for your schedule but put it into your calendar to remind yourself just to take a moment to make sure that you're filling that up because it will always make it easier for you when you need that information. Kind of the same concept of being consistently visible on LinkedIn. If you make that a part of your practice of your social media engagement habits, you will be so more well served as you move through your career.
[00:40:43.090] - Anna
Because LinkedIn is with us for a whole career, which is one of the other million reasons I love it.
[00:40:51.560] - Chris
So Anna, what's the best way for anybody that would love to have a career BFF get in touch with you?
[00:40:57.660] - Chris
What's the best way to do that?
[00:40:58.650] - Anna
Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, LinkedIn is where I spend all of my time. It's Annamorganrp recruiter careerbff, my life on Instagram with lots of dog content, trying to get myself out of bed to go to yoga. You never know what you might get on Instagram, but I'm also on Facebook, and I do stream every Thursday at noon from my business page on LinkedIn Career BFF, and that goes out to YouTube and Facebook as well.
[00:41:40.440] - Chris
[00:41:40.950] - Anna
But message me on LinkedIn for sure.
[00:41:43.770] - Chris
Thank you. All right, well, hey, we appreciate you being on Great Practices today, and you have shared some great practices for our listeners. And I know that those that listen will absolutely be able to benefit their careers by putting some of this advice into practice. For sure.
[00:42:02.800] - Anna
Fantastic. Thank you so much for having me. And I just encourage people to be a career BF for others, especially in your world, with a lot of people wanting to get into projects and program management. They're looking to learn from the leaders in your space. So hopefully they will accept that message, set up that coffee chat, and be a career BFF so your industry continues to expand.
[00:42:31.860] - Chris
Excellent. Thank you very much, Anna. We will talk to you soon.
[00:42:34.930] - Anna
[00:42:42.110] - Chris
Well, that was another great episode of Great Practices, and we really appreciate Anna Morgan coming on and sharing her insights with us as a recruiter, a career strategist, and very helpful as far as some of the things that we can do as project managers, PMO leaders to make sure that our careers stay on track. So what were some of the great practices that came out of today's episode? Let's talk about how to find a new position. I like the fact that she doesn't like that the resume gets all the attention because things are changing now, and there's a lot of steps that need to be done ahead of the resume. Whether it's your mindset, motivation, maybe putting together that brag book that she talked about that's just kind of like a tangible representation of the work that you've done. Always be visible on LinkedIn. And I like that because it is true. You'll see people pop up, I hate this, and this just happened to me. I didn't get a good performance view, whatever that is. It's like they'll just pop their head.
[00:43:43.800] - Chris
Up out of that hole, and that's.
[00:43:45.360] - Chris
Just not a good look. But you want to be consistently visible when it comes to showing up on LinkedIn. The three things that you can do to really get a job. And it may seem common sense, but it just takes a lot of effort. Three things. Number one, apply for the job. Number two, you want to be visible on LinkedIn. And then third, just keep that networking, that networking muscle just active. Because, like she said, you just never know where your next opportunity is going to come from. What about the difference between a resume and what you post on LinkedIn? I'll be honest with you, I thought maybe just copy paste would kind of be good, but that's not what she's recommending. LinkedIn profile complements your resume. It really just kind of shows more of maybe the person side of things and that you are a human being and that you've got interest outside of work, that you've got some personality, and you could do that with the different articles, you post, different videos, you post all of that type of thing. Again, you've got to be mindful that it's not something you're going to regret later, but by doing so, that really kind of complements what's on your resume and shows that person that you are a human being.
[00:45:05.290] - Chris
What about what you should never do, that she sees people do? One of them is basically take advice from just anybody that says that they're a coach or an expert. And that's true because during this pandemic, many people have resorted to coaching and calling themselves gurus and experts, and maybe they haven't done what it is that they're purporting to do. So you want to make sure that they have given you good advice, basically. So watch and beware of the voices that you listen to. This was also great insight. She mentioned that there'll be a long emotional post on LinkedIn. I'm sad to say that after so many years, I'm no longer with my employer and I'm looking for a new job. Okay, that's sad. But she's also saying, give us a story. Stories help us remember things. Tell us more specifically what you're looking for in order to help the recruiter being able to place you in the right spot. Stories make us remember things. So if you can attach stories to whatever it is that you're saying, it's going to be that much better. And do your research before you talk to recruiters. I thought that was also kind of a good point.
[00:46:22.690] - Chris
It's just not like just show up and say, hey, you got anything for me? But actually do the heavy lifting.
[00:46:29.070] - Chris
Say, you know what, I'm looking at.
[00:46:30.220] - Chris
This particular position here's the three reasons why I think that I would be a perfect fit for this. Here's my brag book that we kind of show you that this is exactly what I've done in the past. Fantastic advice, right? So the recruiter's job is to fill a position. It's not to get you a job now. You just so happen to be the person to fill that position. Everybody wins, but help recruiters do that. So now that you've secured an interview, she also gave some great practices when it comes to what an interview is going to look like. I thought this was interesting. She said phone interviews aren't going to go away because it's not that much of a heavy lift. A phone interview is simple.
[00:47:16.590] - Chris
[00:47:17.730] - Chris
It's really kind of a way of vetting out, or the very first phase of vetting somebody out. And then it could move over into, obviously a zoom or a teams interview. But again, with a phone interview, show up with that energy, do the research, know your own resume and your experience. And that's pretty profound. Also because you can put stuff on the resume and it may be years old, you may have forgotten what that is, and somebody asks you about it and you're like, you may be hesitating or may stall a little bit, that's not going to translate well. So really become familiar with what's on your resume, have a story to tell for every single line item that's on that resume and accomplishments on there. Again, stories will help recruiters remember you better. And is it okay to interview from the car? Yeah, if you set up the expectations that, hey, I'm between appointments and I am going to need to be able to take it from the car, is that okay? And if it's not, then that could be rescheduled. So if you've made it that far in the interview process, anna's point was you've earned the right to ask that and see if that's something that you could do, because you do want to have your best look in your best foot going forward.
[00:48:40.310] - Chris
So those were just some of the great practice that I picked out of today's episode. And again, we'd like to thank Anna for coming on today and sharing that insight with us. Now, do you have a great practice that you'd like to share? Just go to the Pmoleader.com, click on Content Great Practices Podcast, and fill out the form at the bottom of the screen. Someone will get in touch with you shortly. Also, be sure not to miss a single episode by subscribing to Great Practices on your favorite podcast platform. And if you like what you hear, be sure to share this with your manager, your colleagues, anybody else that you think would benefit. Thanks again for listening to this episode of Great Practices and keep putting Great Practices into practice.